tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post375200535165069912..comments2024-03-23T09:25:42.029-07:00Comments on Broadsword by Ajai Shukla - Strategy. Economics. Defence.: Back from China. Coming up soon... updates and photos of India's helicopter programmes... the Dhruv, the LCH and the LOH.Broadswordhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13076780076240598482noreply@blogger.comBlogger77125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-17650553757920405522008-09-07T09:43:00.000-07:002008-09-07T09:43:00.000-07:00@ anon 20:17brother, do you realize that ANYONE ca...@ anon 20:17<BR/><BR/>brother, do you realize that ANYONE can take ANY name on a blog comments section ?<BR/>somebody can post here as manmohan singh if he wants to, won't mean MMS is actually posting here would it ?<BR/><BR/>my last words on whether I'm rahulm or not.<BR/>please continue getting your undies in a knot ! it's marginally entertaining.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-28615982013362728232008-09-07T09:38:00.000-07:002008-09-07T09:38:00.000-07:00WSI dhruv images would be superb. we have had no u...WSI dhruv images would be superb. we have had no updates on it since the first flight.<BR/>take your time ajai, but do a thorough job please.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-10035677181947912562008-09-07T09:29:00.000-07:002008-09-07T09:29:00.000-07:00Anonymous said... fighterclass is Rahul M from ...Anonymous said...<BR/><BR/> fighterclass is Rahul M from Bharat Rakshak! the dimwit accidentally commented without choosing to be anon/fighterclass. so in the interests of transparency, dodo fighterclass is actually rahul m from BR!<BR/><BR/> 07 September 2008 20:17<BR/>____________________________________<BR/><BR/>welcome to the paki !Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-4115684817137986922008-09-07T07:47:00.000-07:002008-09-07T07:47:00.000-07:00fighterclass is Rahul M from Bharat Rakshak! the d...fighterclass is Rahul M from Bharat Rakshak! the dimwit accidentally commented without choosing to be anon/fighterclass. so in the interests of transparency, dodo fighterclass is actually rahul m from BR!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-173591742338449812008-09-07T06:51:00.000-07:002008-09-07T06:51:00.000-07:00To add to what fighterclass posted above on the ch...To add to what fighterclass posted above on the choice between "adequate damage" versus "near-assured destruction" --- which is what the choice between 20 mm and 30 mm actually boils down to --- please remember that choosing a lighter turret gun also allows a higher rate of fire.<BR/><BR/>So you have a higher hit probability with a 20 mm gun, not just because of the lower recoil; you're also pumping out more lead... even if they are in smaller pieces!<BR/><BR/>And you can carry more rounds on board in straight numerical terms.<BR/><BR/>Remember, most armies the world over have switched from personal weapons that fired 7.62 mm ammunition to 5.56 mm for similar reasons. "Adequate damage" is damage enough.Broadswordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13076780076240598482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-58191653802137545302008-09-07T06:45:00.000-07:002008-09-07T06:45:00.000-07:00Hi Guys!I appreciate your impatience, but the reas...Hi Guys!<BR/><BR/>I appreciate your impatience, but the reason why the article is not up is a pretty mundane one. Let me explain.<BR/><BR/>I sent the articles --- it's a three-part series on India's helicopter building plans, of which the LCH is Part 2 --- to Business Standard on Thursday. But they want to carry the series on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday.<BR/><BR/>So, alas, I can't post it on the blog until they carry it. It'll come up tomorrow morning. And to make up for all the waiting that you had to do, I"ll post some pics of the Dhruv on which they are doing the Weapons Systems Integration (WSI).<BR/><BR/>For those who are justifiably irritated at having to log on repeatedly for an article that just never seems to come... I would suggest that you activate the "alert" facility, which will send you an email whenever I post an article.<BR/><BR/>But then, you would miss out on all the high-quality interventions and comments that I am reading above. Thanks, all, for that.<BR/><BR/>AjaiBroadswordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13076780076240598482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-73158000759183485362008-09-06T10:51:00.000-07:002008-09-06T10:51:00.000-07:00yup, i've also complained (pls see some former pos...yup, i've also complained (pls see some former posts in his blog) but he seems to be pretty fickle minded. Sometimes moderation is on, sometimes it's off. He claims that people are "defaming" people close to him (e.g. friends, family) in the comment form. Although I've not seen any.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-61467244755074694082008-09-06T08:35:00.000-07:002008-09-06T08:35:00.000-07:00FWIW, aroor has beaten the retreat and has reverte...FWIW, aroor has beaten the retreat and has reverted to censorship on his blog !<BR/><BR/>this is what I get :<BR/>"Your comment has been saved and will be visible after blog owner approval."<BR/><BR/>so much for demand of freedom of speech from media people of the likes of aroor, they can't even handle honest criticism !Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-26536279680680053782008-09-06T08:15:00.000-07:002008-09-06T08:15:00.000-07:00they want it deleted so everyone must only direct ...they want it deleted so everyone must only direct to AZAD KASHMIR page. So we have to vota "Keep"<BR/><BR/>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Pakistan_occupied_KashmirAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-23481843178724554252008-09-06T08:06:00.000-07:002008-09-06T08:06:00.000-07:00TO ALL INDIAN USERS, IMPORTANT!There is an ongoing...TO ALL INDIAN USERS, IMPORTANT!<BR/><BR/>There is an ongoing war in Wikipedia regarding an article called "Pakistan occupied Kashmir" with Paki Wikipedians requesting it's deletion. This is because the article is claimed by them as "not neutral point of view". The article is now up for deletion after. Please show your support to keeo this article by voting for it. Type *'''Keep'''- followed by your message. You must however have had a reputable Wikipedia account for voting or it won't be counted. Thanks. <BR/><BR/>The voting page is loacted at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Pakistan_occupied_Kashmir<BR/><BR/>The article in question is available http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan_occupied_Kashmir<BR/><BR/>Mod, please delete after 2 days.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-49907191786735879412008-09-06T03:36:00.000-07:002008-09-06T03:36:00.000-07:00max, if you are a member you can just select "view...max, if you are a member you can just select "view user's posts" from vivek ahuja's profile.<BR/><BR/>if not you have to go about it in a round about way, just look into the china military watch threads -- both the archived and the new one and also the war in tibet threads.<BR/><BR/>cheers !Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-54668969040138954282008-09-06T02:33:00.000-07:002008-09-06T02:33:00.000-07:00fighterclass, i don't seem to find the discussion ...fighterclass, i don't seem to find the discussion on LCH on BR. Can you please provide the exact URL of that discussion?Thanks.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-52973798855067836042008-09-06T02:27:00.000-07:002008-09-06T02:27:00.000-07:00wow that was excellent fighterclass.. i can't argu...wow that was excellent fighterclass.. i can't argue with you further. You've really got extensive knowledge on this stuff.. <BR/><BR/>Thanks..Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-30424454834242324442008-09-06T01:05:00.000-07:002008-09-06T01:05:00.000-07:00max said... The other thing I realised is all h...max said...<BR/><BR/> The other thing I realised is all helicopters in its class / era are equipped with 30mm turret while this only has a 20mm nexter. <BR/>___________________________________<BR/>not true:<BR/>ah-64:30mm<BR/>mangusta:20mm<BR/>tiger:30mm in french version. no chin mounted gun in german version,uses podded 12.7mm or 20mm.<BR/>ka-50:30mm<BR/>rooivalk:20mm<BR/>ah-1z: 20mm<BR/>mi-28:30mm<BR/>mi-25:12.7mm<BR/>mi-35:23mm<BR/>........................<BR/>so you see a lot of both older and newer helos do use the lower calib guns.<BR/>do note that the commanche also used a 20mm cannon.<BR/><BR/>One of the main reasons is that at around 5 tonnes, a 30mm gun firing in auto mode would have tremendous recoil, enough to seriously destabilize the craft. <BR/><BR/>all the helos with more than 20 mm cannons are much heavier than the LCH, in the medium to heavy class. those can handle the recoil better than a light bird like LCH could.<BR/>___________________________________<BR/>max said...<BR/><BR/>Although its firing velocity is better, can it compensate the damage a 30mm slug can cause?<BR/>___________________________________<BR/>of course, a 20mm slug would have lesser damage but the question is what type of targets do you intend to use it upon ? <BR/>"BOTH" can shred thin skinned vehicles but is 30mm enough to incapacitate an armoured vehicle ?<BR/>hardly ! <BR/>so what is the use of a heavier 30mm round (which you would carry a much lower number of) if all you are going to do with it is shoot at personnel ! worse, it would also give you a bad recoil to boot ! <BR/>the 20mm does the same thing without a recoil and you would also carry many more of the stuff !<BR/><BR/>of course, if you mean that the sheer devastation of the 30mm is unmatched in badness, I'm all with you !!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-61349431054394831882008-09-06T00:33:00.000-07:002008-09-06T00:33:00.000-07:00max said:For engines, here are some examples. Ka-5...max said:<BR/>For engines, here are some examples. Ka-50: 2x 2,226 shp, 10,700Kg . AH-64 Apache: 2x 1,800 shp, 9,500kg. Denel AH-2 Rooivalk: 2x 2,300 shp, 8,750 kg.<BR/><BR/>Can't compare as I don't know LCH's max TO weight. Only know Shakti engine power as 1,200 shp. Wikipedia says 5,500 kg. Perhaps its speculation.<BR/>___________________________________<BR/>I'm posting engine power in kW and MAX T/O wt in kg for commonality.<BR/>First let us do a simple power/mass<BR/>calculation to find out which helo is underpowered. (this is by no way indicatory of total aerodynamic performance but would still be the most important factor)<BR/><BR/>HELO WT TOTAL-ENGN-PWR PWR/WT<BR/>____ __ ______________ ______<BR/>AH-64 9500 2*1490=2980 0.3137<BR/>mngsta 4600 2*664=1328 0.289<BR/>tiger 6000 2*873=1746 0.291 <BR/>ka-50 10800 2*1660=3320 0.307<BR/>ruivlk 8750 2*1716=3432 0.392<BR/>ah-1z 8390 2*1340=2680 0.319<BR/>mi-28 11500 2*1450=2900 0.252<BR/>********************************<BR/>LCH 5500 2*900=1800 0.327<BR/>********************************<BR/><BR/>the LCH, UNDERPOWERED, eh ? you must be joking ? :-D<BR/>rest easy dude, this fella' has the best pwr2wt ratio of all except the rooivalk(of which only 12 were ever built) !<BR/><BR/>secondly, note that the 5.5t figure is about half a tonne on the higher side(5.5 tonne is just the wt of the ALH reproduced on an info board)<BR/>and lastly, ALH's engine would retain much of it's maxpower at the low density atmosphere of the high altitudes, unlike other engines, because it would be fine tuned to that purpose. it's like the reverse of "flat-rating" for jet engines that you hear about.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-70426090238790351872008-09-06T00:28:00.000-07:002008-09-06T00:28:00.000-07:00I'm not going to reply to this post.All those 'ano...I'm not going to reply to this post.<BR/>All those 'anonymouss' who just keep on posting for another post, you are too dumb to understand that its a blog - a personal blog.<BR/>Mr.Shukla has all the right to post whenever it suits him.<BR/>If its not soon enough you can always troll some other site or shove your...<BR/>into your own as...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-33374957058490779412008-09-05T23:58:00.000-07:002008-09-05T23:58:00.000-07:00looking down doesn't necessarily mean to launch an...looking down doesn't necessarily mean to launch an attack (i.e. fire directly down from level flight). It's just to gather what's directly below the chopper at level flight, and if needed, descent and launch an attack. Sadly, LCH cannot perform this. For LCH, it seems that the chopper would have to be flown at a tilted angle all the time (cockpit down, tail up) to see what's below. Remember, the pilot depends on the optical turret to pinpoint accurately what's below. Unless of course our pilots have eagle's eyes which can pin point targets from 20,000-odd feet up!<BR/>_________________________________________________<BR/>max, attack choppers are never designed to look at targets from 20k up in the sky.they are never supposed to fly high up in the sky and swoop down to attack targets.<BR/><BR/>these are designed to do "nape of the earth flying" at less than 100 m from the surface. stealth is absolutely necessary for a helo, especially an attack helo to survive in the battlefield. otherwise it flies too low and slow to survive SAMs.<BR/>and, in that case a helo is supposed to acquire targets (mainly vehicles and hardened structures) in front of it,hide behind a raised structure, pop up to fire a missile or a rocket and get back behind the structure.<BR/>there are almost no situations in which an attack helo will have to fire at a target immediately below it.<BR/>if it does, that would mean the pilot has goofed up and hasn't picked up the target in time !!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-29105121509715110702008-09-05T11:56:00.000-07:002008-09-05T11:56:00.000-07:00Anon @ 05 September 2008 06:49Sure I do, but that ...Anon @ 05 September 2008 06:49<BR/><BR/>Sure I do, but that was the point. I just wondered how there is so much conversation around an empty non-post :)<BR/><BR/>Good that none of us is a journalist. The media industry is already too sensationalized - with all emotions and opinions (than facts and news).<BR/><BR/>May be Ajai thought it is a good thing to let us know in advance of a post - we all saw the effect of that. One thing is certain, lot of name-less net-vaasis(including me) who are also jobless.... blah blah blah....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-19579299940203640602008-09-05T07:51:00.000-07:002008-09-05T07:51:00.000-07:00anon@05 September 2008 06:49: don't u contribute 2...anon@05 September 2008 06:49: don't u contribute 2 it?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-48665020871231559152008-09-04T23:36:00.000-07:002008-09-04T23:36:00.000-07:00HURRY UP SHUKLA. over 1 week and still waiting.. y...HURRY UP SHUKLA. over 1 week and still waiting.. you should refrain fro putting up such *coming soon* notices in future if it's not gonna come *soon*. *Soon* means in a short period of time. If 1 week+ is a short period for you to just compile a simple article, I wonder why we condemn DRDO who also uses *soon* but doesn't honour it to our expectations. They said some 2 or 3 weeks back they were to test the exo-atmospheric ABM *soon*. 3 weeks past, no test.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-11259669313570056162008-09-04T23:31:00.000-07:002008-09-04T23:31:00.000-07:00The other thing I realised is all helicopters in i...The other thing I realised is all helicopters in its class / era are equipped with 30mm turret while this only has a 20mm nexter. Although its firing velocity is better, can it compensate the damage a 30mm slug can cause?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-68235672663599922402008-09-04T23:28:00.000-07:002008-09-04T23:28:00.000-07:00Fighterclass, looking down doesn't necessarily mea...Fighterclass, looking down doesn't necessarily mean to launch an attack (i.e. fire directly down from level flight). It's just to gather what's directly below the chopper at level flight, and if needed, descent and launch an attack. Sadly, LCH cannot perform this. For LCH, it seems that the chopper would have to be flown at a tilted angle all the time (cockpit down, tail up) to see what's below. Remember, the pilot depends on the optical turret to pinpoint accurately what's below. Unless of course our pilots have eagle's eyes which can pin point targets from 20,000-odd feet up!<BR/><BR/>For engines, here are some examples. Ka-50: 2x 2,226 shp, 10,700Kg . AH-64 Apache: 2x 1,800 shp, 9,500kg. Denel AH-2 Rooivalk: 2x 2,300 shp, 8,750 kg. <BR/><BR/>Can't compare as I don't know LCH's max TO weight. Only know Shakti engine power as 1,200 shp. Wikipedia says 5,500 kg. Perhaps its speculation.<BR/><BR/>Oh, Bharat Rakshak. I know. Thanks for the link. Has Ajai a problem with BR?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-45363148497394539942008-09-04T18:19:00.000-07:002008-09-04T18:19:00.000-07:00Ajai is probably stuck thinking how long you namel...Ajai is probably stuck thinking how long you nameless nutcases can go on commenting on a "Coming up soon..." message. Forget it, it is not going to come.<BR/><BR/>Whether he is or not, I am having fun watching all u anony-mouses shedding your frustration, pervertion and foolishness here...bring it out boldly, your true self, hiding behing that name "Anonymous"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-39966364745260420532008-09-04T17:00:00.000-07:002008-09-04T17:00:00.000-07:00Dear Ajai,Please post a deadline by when you expec...Dear Ajai,<BR/>Please post a deadline by when you expect to post this topic. Also works for the frequent announcements that you make. It will prevent a lot of heartburn amongst people who log on in anticipation.<BR/><BR/>RegardsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-16896272005444047602008-09-04T12:28:00.000-07:002008-09-04T12:28:00.000-07:00wz-10 is unknown quantity.it is not even known if ...wz-10 is unknown quantity.<BR/>it is not even known if it exists at all !! there have been NO confirmed sightings as of now. ALL news we have on it are from chinese fansites. no govt announcement, no nothing.<BR/><BR/>yes, LCH won't be able to look immediately underneath. but that is not a position where a helo is supposed to attack.<BR/>do check the arrangement on other attack helos, which of these would be able to fire underneath, even if they can see it ?? ;-)<BR/>do tell me !!<BR/><BR/>btw,why do you think LCH will be underpowered ?? please post the names of helos which you think has better power to weight ratio than LCH and I'll try to answer.<BR/>please state BOTH engine power AND max T/O wt.<BR/><BR/>regarding vivek ahuja, do you know what BRF is ?? <BR/>try http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewforum.php?f=3<BR/><BR/>@ ajai shukla: I know you have no love lost for BRF, so here goes my apologies in advance.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com