tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post1525261380170429947..comments2024-03-28T05:22:10.255-07:00Comments on Broadsword by Ajai Shukla - Strategy. Economics. Defence.: The day nothing happenedBroadswordhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13076780076240598482noreply@blogger.comBlogger49125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-21229956889435165302023-01-03T03:40:29.155-08:002023-01-03T03:40:29.155-08:00Thanks for sharing this post ! A very unique and ...Thanks for sharing this post ! A very unique and informative post. Keep it up.<br /> <a href="https://industrialsafetyequipments.co.uk/" rel="nofollow"> Bomber jackets available online </a>Steve Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10268747619047457079noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-62999331287182493442020-12-03T10:57:57.851-08:002020-12-03T10:57:57.851-08:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-50063104609045774912020-09-03T04:05:41.931-07:002020-09-03T04:05:41.931-07:00glad your intellectuals refuse to face Truth. Trut...glad your intellectuals refuse to face Truth. Truth will always prevail over falsehood. Col. Shukla said nothing wrong which your best historians Pushpidar Singh, Ravi Riekye,PVS Jagan Mohan, Samir Choopra in their pretty fair treatise have chronicled. Opinions are only valid when in consonance with empirical data. Be as it may, IAF can celebrate 5th Sept..Flight ofhe falconhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15024776755021350450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-15232680374837890232020-09-03T03:56:18.895-07:002020-09-03T03:56:18.895-07:00total nonsense about PAF hiding in Iran. I was com...total nonsense about PAF hiding in Iran. I was commanding PAF's largest wing at Sargodha. we flew 50 % more missions in 1971 than 1965. Your Bharat Rakshak is a mirror you should look at for IAF losses of 74 aircraft to PAF 24 which includes 11 F86s abandoned at Dacca after the only Runway availableto ONLY ONE PAF SQDN.NO.14,was destroyed after IAFs 350 attacks in 5 days mostly against the single Dacca runway. NOT A SINGLE FIGHTER WAS EVEN DAMAGED ON THE GROUND IN THE RELENTLESS ATTACKS.IAF had 11 Sqdns. against this single sqdn. marooned 1000 miles of india between East& West Pak..According to PVS Jagan Mohan Eagles over East erstwhile East Pak IAF flew 2002 sorties against Pak forces in 6 days.<br />PAF performance as air force was better than even 65. pl..refer to your own intrepid authors not our version. Feb 2020 should be a remainder that war will never solve indian political problems. Nor ever IAF will attain air superiority over PAF. Quantity, technology are fine but leadeship, training and professional excellence are the game changer and weapons force multipliers. Col. Shukla gave a simple message, Why an airforce times in size, with territorial depth a sine qua non for Air ops, Soviet open support of materials, should celebrate a victory having lost 74 (Bharatrakshak) to PAF 17 to all causes but only 11 to operations..Wisdom is to learn lessons not hubris, gentlemen. Flight ofhe falconhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15024776755021350450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-71320476218021619062017-10-14T01:11:15.055-07:002017-10-14T01:11:15.055-07:00Luckily some anonymous has finally spoken sense. I...Luckily some anonymous has finally spoken sense. It's truism that changing AM ASGHAR khan through an intrigue by Ayub khan and his Saval Gen . Musa. I had the opportunity to lead the attack against Gen. Nirendra Parshad Div and the attakers led by Col. Desmond Hyde on 6th sept. Same day I led my squadron against pathankot. So I may be permitted to give a view from here. Asghar khan had created the doctrine of PAF, ITS strategy of Pre emptive initiative, inextricably necessary for a small Air Force, lack of geographical depth and restrictive resources. AM Nur khan was appointed just weeks before the war. A great commander with whom I flew almost all working days when he was C IN C . But the PAF Magnum opus was not followed as per Asghar Khan plan owing to confusion rather unexceptable, and total failure by station commander Mauripur. Yes, had the planned strike gone in full force it would have been devastating. But ifs and buts don't justify what did not happen. IAF official record of losses on bharatrakshak as well as well as by three of India's respected historians confirm IAF LOSSES OF 74 To all causes in both 1965- 71 wars. PAF losses were 17 in 65 and 21 I think plus minus 2 in 71. IAF flew 2001 Sorties in 71 Against Dacca and unused Chittagong plus CAS missions. Dacca had just one squadron, single runway in East, and water logged from all sides with no chance of help. 280 or so attack missions were flown against Dacca. Not a single Fighter of PAF was destroyed on the ground. We lost three in the air battles after 19th Nov. It's for sabe minds to judge who came out better with the given preponderance in favour of one of the antagonists. It's your choice. Flight ofhe falconhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15024776755021350450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-10465840657355563692017-09-07T14:02:00.112-07:002017-09-07T14:02:00.112-07:00US stopped arms supplies to Pakistan, which is old...US stopped arms supplies to Pakistan, which is old habit of USA to abandon its allies during wars (especially if the ally is a Muslim-majority). You were helped by Superpowr Soviet Union. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-48031531821362936972017-09-07T13:58:25.628-07:002017-09-07T13:58:25.628-07:00Is that why Indian General is still calling and ta...Is that why Indian General is still calling and talking about war? (September 06-2017 – https://www.thenews.com.pk/latest/228341-Indian-Army-chief-warns-of-two-front-war-with-China-and-Pakistan)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-5086372198956428572017-09-07T13:56:25.266-07:002017-09-07T13:56:25.266-07:00In 71' India attacked Eastern Pakistan, where ...In 71' India attacked Eastern Pakistan, where Pakistan had limited military resources.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-33803388768090266942017-09-07T13:54:10.205-07:002017-09-07T13:54:10.205-07:00@auqil: Only this time, this article proves ego of...@auqil: Only this time, this article proves ego of ones in your country (Pakistan), to be based on facts as mentioned by this non-Pakistani about Pakistan Air Force. Liberals once again seem to be hurt learning the facts about their own country. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-89047819816803526202017-09-07T09:47:49.153-07:002017-09-07T09:47:49.153-07:00Don't IAF realized that MM Alam was , is &...Don't IAF realized that MM Alam was , is & Will Remain "Baap" of IAF.<br />Whatsoever Happened on 5th September.<br />Just be aware.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-7678837494887873152017-09-07T05:06:05.872-07:002017-09-07T05:06:05.872-07:00Yes pakistanis are the best humans.pakistani soldi...Yes pakistanis are the best humans.pakistani soldiers and pilots are most courageous.indian soldiers and pilots are cowards. happy?. Even hardened generals dont want war.War does not bring any glory.It is nothing but masturbation of nationalistic egos.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-69310090388096862152017-09-06T18:11:08.019-07:002017-09-06T18:11:08.019-07:00No wars, we need peace and progress. A Pakistani. ...No wars, we need peace and progress. A Pakistani. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-83745426143451497572017-09-06T06:36:01.466-07:002017-09-06T06:36:01.466-07:00Absolutely wrong. It was AM ASGHAR khan who create...Absolutely wrong. It was AM ASGHAR khan who created the PAF DOCTRINE in June 1965. The strategy was his brainchild and shared with the likes of me n all Sqdn. Cdr's. Our Targets had been allocated by name of Sqdn,. Cdr level. Yes that's the only truth. AM Nur Khan was away from PAF, RUNNING PIA for six years while ASGHAR khan's trained and highly motivated PAF fought under another great commander AM Nur Khan, who told me severally that he inherited a formidable fighting machine from ASGHAR Khan and needed no additions or changes to the strategy and readiness. IAF was five times our PAF. Out actual n total losses to all causes, war, accidents, were 17 as opposed to IAF 74 to all causes( Bharatrakshak and PVS JAGAN MOHAN N SAMIR CHOPRA AWARD WINNING HISTORY OF 1965 War. <br />The irony is that owing to the defensive and incompetent national leadership the PAF had to support the Lahore, Sialkot sector immensely, which was against the ASGHAR KHAN DOCTRINE. Had our missions from Sargodha and Mauripur been launched as planned the story would have been quite different. But that was own failure by Mauripur commander. Flight ofhe falconhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15024776755021350450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-84464503565073401972017-09-06T03:23:58.731-07:002017-09-06T03:23:58.731-07:00The first line sounds so commonly fimiliar in my c...The first line sounds so commonly fimiliar in my country, Pakistan, too. Our egos drive us blind.auqilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04127490470058220141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-20407229350258141802016-05-06T08:45:47.862-07:002016-05-06T08:45:47.862-07:00Kindly read the article by Air vice Marshal A K Ti...Kindly read the article by Air vice Marshal A K Tiwary in Indian defence review based on facts and data and not delusional ramblings. Yes the IAF could have performed better but it was not on the mat as the author tries to project rather it started getting the upperhand as the war progressed and that is the "real spade"Piyushnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-72725231261803503462014-09-24T12:45:50.570-07:002014-09-24T12:45:50.570-07:00Unfortunate you refer to Fricker's book as aut...Unfortunate you refer to Fricker's book as authoritative. It was commissioned by the PAF, and is thus not credible. There is only one book that does a good, dispassionate job of analysis. Please read, "The India-Pakistan Air War of 1965", by P.V.S. Jagan Mohan and Samir Chopra, Manohar Publishers. Highly recommend all readers of this blog to read that book and then make up their minds on Col.Shukla's post.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-86902719129700318862014-09-15T06:31:35.868-07:002014-09-15T06:31:35.868-07:00@Ishaq, a correction. The RB-57F 'Droopy' ...@Ishaq, a correction. The RB-57F 'Droopy' was actually fired on (SA-2) after the war, on 10th Oct 1965. Also it was not declared 'beyond repair' by PAF. It was repaired with the help of PIA engineers and returned to USAF from whom it was leased. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-3612132333031297232014-09-12T08:10:34.025-07:002014-09-12T08:10:34.025-07:00@ Ishfaq
Thank you for your honest and balanced c...@ Ishfaq<br /><br />Thank you for your honest and balanced comment. You have added great value to this thread. I hope you will continue to visit broadsword and share your views.Broadswordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13076780076240598482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-88142283051987355872014-09-11T22:51:40.012-07:002014-09-11T22:51:40.012-07:00I was a XII class student in September 1965 in the...I was a XII class student in September 1965 in the then East Pakistan. I joined PAF in 1966 and commissioned in 1968, finally retired from Bangladesh Air Force in 2003. I have known many star PAF and IAF officers through my association with Staff College and the National Defence College. 1965 War was a fiasco for both sides from many angle. Pakistan's planning Ops Gibraltar without considering Air or Naval forces, its assumption that few infiltrators and a radio station will ignite a revolution, her assumption that war will remain limited to Kashmir and that India will not cross the international boundary, all proved wrong. The first kill of the War was two IAF Vampires shot down over Chamb sector by PAF Sabres on 2 Sept 1965 - that needs to be stated. Both air forces started full-scale counter air ops from 6-7 Sept. PAF appeared to have done better in by 7 Sept, which is celebrated as the Air Force Day in Pakistan. Pakistan's commando operation against IAF airfields was a disaster as stated in the blog. It's true. Similarly, IAF's attack against air fields in Jessore and Chittagong was useless because they had never had military assets since the end of WWII. In Dhaka attack, the IAF Pilots were briefed to attack non-operational runway at Kurmitola. leaving the only operational base at Tejgaon untouched. The pilots were briefed not to attack Tejgaon, although that's where Sabres were operating from since 1963. It's strange that the Indian intelligence did not know from where the Sabres were operating, although they had a Deputy High Commission in Dhaka since partition. Similarly, IAF Eastern command assured Kalaikunda base that it is beyond the reach of Sabres. So they left their Canberras and Vampires neatly lined up on the tarmac when the Sabre attack came. Kalaikunda raid proved to be costliest for the IAF. PAF had only 2 RB-57 reconnaissance aircraft. One got badly damaged over Delhi due to SA-2 missile that burst close to the aircraft to cause major damage and the aircraft was declared "damaged beyond repair". The other one was shot down a few days after ceasefire by Pak Army's own ack-ack fire when it was trying to do dive bombing run over a mobile radar station near Sargodha. The AA Guns were on "Hold Fire", means not to fire under any circumstances, yet one lone gunner, assuming that the site is under attack, opened fire that killed both the crew - pilot and navigator. So the fiascoes were on both sides. In one incident, an IAF Canberra was shot down by an F-104 at night as it was returning after raid over Peshawar. The F-104 was positioned by Ground Radar behind the Canberra near Mianwali, but the F-104 was not able to get a missile tone because of the tail-warning radar of the Canberra was warning the Canberra pilot and he was all the time maneuvering. Then as the Canberra crossed Sahiwal, for some reason, the Canberra switched off its tail-warning Radar and resumed straight and level flight and that was the time F-104 got a lock-on and fired its Sidewinder. The Canberra exploded in a ball of fire. It was the only Canberra shot down in air at night during the entire War. Anonymous wrote that AM Nur Khan of Pakistan was from India, to clarify let me say he is from a place known as Talagang in Pakistani Punjab. He was, of course, commissioned in Royal Indian Air Force before partition, like many others. For many in Pakistan, he is considered the Father of the PAF.Ishfaqnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-18709523086717236742014-09-08T10:55:52.756-07:002014-09-08T10:55:52.756-07:00This is an interesting article and is largely base...This is an interesting article and is largely based on facts which can be checked from multiple sources. To begin with, the attack on Pathankot is detailed on the Web site of Indian airforce and it is obvious IAF was caught with its pants down. Similarly, PAF. Attack on the advancing columns of Indian Army not only halted the attack but broke the moral. Don't forget Anna Hazare was the sole survivor of one of the attacks on the column. While those attacks took place, IAF choose to be absent from the scene. Anyone interested in more details should read Kuldip Nayars book 'Scoops' in which he has described the attack on Lahore and how PAF saved Pakistan from a decisive defeat. Both Pakistan and India had kept their airforce in the dark of actual planning and war came as a surprise. Biography of Air Marshal Nur Khan makes an interesting reading. He was only 38 in 1965. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-87139807853498679332014-09-08T08:30:21.622-07:002014-09-08T08:30:21.622-07:00Oh yes.... the first sorties were apparently launc...Oh yes.... the first sorties were apparently launched on an emergency request, and WITHOUT a ground controller. Accounts of the meeting between the RM, CAS and the COAS bring out that the possibility of fratricide was brought out by the CAS and ACCEPTED by the COAS as the situation was critical. 20 Lancers reaction is understandable. Yours is a mystery.Ashish Singhnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-19820995395080732492014-09-08T08:26:09.713-07:002014-09-08T08:26:09.713-07:00Please give us informed journalism. Not a TRP rai...Please give us informed journalism. Not a TRP raiser like this article. Firstly, wars, whether won or lost are meant to be discussed and even commemorated. Secondly, you tripped over the first line of credibility when you mentioned the IAF had 48 sqns. As a matter of fact, it has NEVER reached that strength. At least I haven't even found ONE reference to this figure that you quote. Unless you are adding heptr and tpt sqns too. Thirdly, the PAF was superior in equipment and possibly tactics too, but so was the Luftwaffe in the Battle of Britain. India was in splendid isolation as a non-aligned nation. PAF had access to a multinational/ US led alliance's expertise (SEATO? CENTO ad what have you). In fact, aircraft for aircraft, there was nothing in it for the IAF. The Sabre was a frontline fighter, battle proven and MISSILE ARMED. The Gnat on the other hand, was actually an advanced jet trainer (that's how the RAF used it before getting the HAWK). I'm sorry to say, I'm not at all impressed by your knowledge (lack of) of military aviation. Reading your blog is quite a waste of time. Amateurs like me can spot flaws, I pity the professionals.Ashish Singhnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-82414789603358714982014-09-07T08:36:44.085-07:002014-09-07T08:36:44.085-07:00PAF chickened out in most air wars with India. 19...PAF chickened out in most air wars with India. 1971 one entire squadron (of 16 planes) was destroyed on the ground by PAF officers in East Pakistan as they were chicken and refused to fight the IAF. This has been well documented by American sources (Time Magazine). Kargil - they ran away, were scared and refused to fight again for which PAF was severely criticized by Pakistan Army.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-61633694232475492482014-09-06T03:58:43.491-07:002014-09-06T03:58:43.491-07:00I agree with Broadsword - its indeed correct to ca...I agree with Broadsword - its indeed correct to call a spade a spade. Its astounding that the IAF have decided to celebrate their "victory" in the '65 War, when the truth is very clearly otherwise. And what is worse is that the Marshal of the IAF Arjan Singh was the Chief during the '65 War. I wonder how was he ever selected to be the Marshal???<br /><br />Yes, the IAF learnt its lessons well and went on to do exceptionally well in the '71 War. And yes, there were redeeming moments when brave young fighter pilots went up against superior machines flown by well trained PAF pilots. But there were equal number of gross blunders, perhaps topped by BS Sikand getting lost, landing his Gnat at Lahore by mistake and facing the ignominy of being "Air Arrested" by the PAF ground personnel, when they quickly recovered from their surprise. That Gnat was later flown by their test pilot and used to lead their official flypasts for several years thereafter.<br /><br />A professional Air Force is not afraid of the truth, acknowledges past mistakes as such and learns the correct lessons.<br /><br />We could have rightfully celebrated our victory in the '71 War.Our present CAS instead appears to be on a PR trip.<br /><br />Very disappointing, indeed. Expected much better from the IAFHari Nairnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-75453841931036875822014-09-05T09:27:14.342-07:002014-09-05T09:27:14.342-07:00Most people criticizing the author on this article...Most people criticizing the author on this article do not read the article in detail or may require to enroll in reading comprehension classes. <br /><br />The author asks two potent questions <br /><br />1. Why September 5 to commemorate IAF's air campaign of 1965 why not another suitable date ? <br /><br />2. Why the year long celebrations? <br /><br />To statrt with a war may not be "celebrated" with pomp and pagentry but a more appropriately a solemn ceremony must be conducted. <br /><br />The objective of such ceremonies is NOT to celebrate the valiance of one or a group of warriors in executing the other nations warriors. But to solemnly "Honour" the "sacrifices" made by those who stepped up when the nation called upon them to do so. <br /><br />Lately in India, Our aspiration to be counted as a world power has also led to people trying to color or abandon the past, altogether. Since we cling to our Armed Forces as an outsider God Like institution , three types of reactions of military personnel and civilians are noticed when there is a contradiction or deviation from the supposed truth. <br /><br />1. Complete Denial followed by either complete pessimism and disillusionment. <br /><br />2. Complete Denial followed by self indoctrination of some untruth to further artificially boost morale. <br /><br />The Idea that India never made and can never make any mistakes or has losses especially in the military realm. <br /><br />The paranoia of putting the 'best foot forward' while ignoring the gangrened one in the rear is actually damaging the morale of a nation and its military rather than giving it a actual calm confidence.<br /><br />When India goes into combat with Pakistan, it has been more than one occasion that an Indian commander has recommended a Pakistani military man for bravery or valour who has then been subsequently awarded that honour by his government. However, It has never been the case of vice versa. <br /><br />Brave fighters are born every where but it takes a real confident and professional Military to acknowledge valiance of the enemy. <br /><br />Ladies and Gentleman, by not seeking out the truth, by not admitting mistakes and working doubly hard to improve upon them, by covering up or coloring our history and putting our 'best foot forward', we are only fooling ourselves and becoming a weak, spineless nation of meek misogyny. <br /><br />A nation quite similar to a type of nation that refused to admit and abandoned its soldiers who died fighting for them, simply because they lost. <br /><br />A nation quite similar to a type of nation whose soldier Capt. Karnal Sher (Nishan-i-Haider) was not recognized by his own Army because the over all objective was lost. They only recognized him when he was recognized by his enemies. <br /><br />We will become that kind of nation and military which claims victory in all conflicts and all engagements. And defeat because of every thing else but their own shortcomings. <br /> <br />Now, regarding 1965. Lets just go by the actual history please. Instead of year long clebration, please contact all veterans and videograph all their interviews. <br /><br />For the sake of our nation I ask the high and mighty, in the military and the government to not fudge history but to let the public know, which ever way it is. <br /><br />We dont care if we won or lost that Air war or ground war or Naval war of 1965. We dont want great manufactured victorious war stories to be happy with you. <br />We are safe today and for that we are thankful and greatful. <br /> <br />What we do want to know, is the absolute truth, What we do want is to honour the true past, victorious or disastrous. What we do want is that lessons be drawn from our past mistakes and improvements be made. <br /><br />Dont try to trick us into believing you are "invincible". We do not expect you to be. 'Convince' us that you are working very hard at improving yourself. <br /><br />When we the public know this, we will back you, the military, up, all the way. <br /><br />Jai Hind ! Jai Jawan !Jean Luc Picardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07523465808756925391noreply@blogger.com