tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post8082899188056620449..comments2024-03-28T05:22:10.255-07:00Comments on Broadsword by Ajai Shukla - Strategy. Economics. Defence.: Eurofighter edges ahead in MMRCA race: Eurojet pips GE in LCA engine bidBroadswordhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13076780076240598482noreply@blogger.comBlogger29125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-48209841527613483742010-12-11T12:44:51.831-08:002010-12-11T12:44:51.831-08:00this is very good for you, ybg :)this is very good for you, ybg :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-12557731397311944872010-11-21T05:47:50.354-08:002010-11-21T05:47:50.354-08:00MY CHOICE IS RAFALE.WE KNOW THAT DASSAULT BUILD FI...MY CHOICE IS RAFALE.WE KNOW THAT DASSAULT BUILD FINE FIGHTERS.WE CAN SEE PROOF-MIRAGE 2OOO.PRANAV UNDALKARnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-79911783024532867282010-09-30T06:10:25.353-07:002010-09-30T06:10:25.353-07:00Can I say, I told you so? GE wins. Why does EJ hav...Can I say, I told you so? GE wins. Why does EJ have this special fondness for feeding people tripe? Sorry, Ajai, you seem to have been misled.Maximusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-1964011367885725762010-09-27T01:53:49.433-07:002010-09-27T01:53:49.433-07:00Procrastination is the thief of time.
The MMRCA sa...Procrastination is the thief of time.<br />The MMRCA saga shoild come to a quick end.<br />Let us choose the best aircraft and I am sure the IAF will do a good job.<br />No point in early speculation.DEVASISnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-89446029221920332622010-09-23T11:44:38.279-07:002010-09-23T11:44:38.279-07:00GE have the best engine.
It fits, best fuel eco, ...GE have the best engine. <br />It fits, best fuel eco, best IR, cheapest to fly, and best thust<br /> and more or less interchangeable with f404. more to grow on with F414EDE/EPE<br /><br />Weight? <br />ok, eurojet win that.<br />thats it. This article is biased.<br />i love eurostuff, but right needs to right.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-56257620712563474052010-09-22T09:30:47.145-07:002010-09-22T09:30:47.145-07:00I WANT TO SEE EUROFIGHTER IN INDIAN COLORS.....I WANT TO SEE EUROFIGHTER IN INDIAN COLORS.....Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02003410022979036110noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-42213733904439841872010-09-22T07:21:00.889-07:002010-09-22T07:21:00.889-07:00EJ'S ARE MORE ADVANCED GETS AN AUTOMATIC RE IG...EJ'S ARE MORE ADVANCED GETS AN AUTOMATIC RE IGNITION SYSTEM AND MOST IMPORTANTLY DOSEN'T REQUIRE ANY AIRFRAME MODIFICATION AND TVC TOO. SEEMS TO BE A PERFECT OPTION TO ACQUIREUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02003410022979036110noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-81689283572911333132010-09-21T06:47:09.401-07:002010-09-21T06:47:09.401-07:00@Anonymous 6.52
Don't get me wrong. Either wa...@Anonymous 6.52<br /><br />Don't get me wrong. Either way we go-GE or EJ, we get the business end of the stick. <br /><br />Let me take a step back-Why are we buying the MMRCA? <br /><br />Because we failed to develop Tejas to replace the Mig-21. Why? <br /><br />Because of the inefficiencies of HAL/NAL/GTRE/ & the GOI. <br /><br />Are they being punished for their in-efficiences? Are you kidding me-they get hikes, increased DA and other goodies. <br /><br />So what is the motivation for them to work when they know their in-efficiency is being rewarded? Zilch. You will have even fatter rats tomorrow. Who benefits? <br /><br />Politicians (kick-backs) & the foreign manufacturer. Who pays? <br /><br />The people of India. Petrol will become costlier, taxes will become higher. We do not have money to build roads, toilets or schools for 40% of our population but we will gladly fork out an extra billion dollars when the French hold us to ransom on the M2K upgrade (Btw: 51 M2K's cost $1,900 Million to "upgrade"-$38 Million/plane for a new radar, avionics, EW suite & digital cockpit. Airframe and engine un-touched. FYI-A new M2K costs $45 Million when last sold to the Hellenic Air Force)<br /><br />Before i become branded as a Pakistani- There is no way out here. IAF needs fighters desperately to defend this country from enemies on both sides. What we have to figure out is the best deal we can get-which is pretty simple if you are honest, but complicated when kick-backs come into the picture.<br /><br />So if you ask me which is the better deal for the engines/MMRCA-Both the Europeans/Americans will loot us till we are sick, they will both pay kick-backs to the "correct" people; but unlike the Americans, they will not impose sanctions on us because we don't help them in their war effort on Timbuktoostan. <br /><br />And in-case you are thinking that HAL will be able to support the MMRCA if we get hit by sanctions in the future(why not, they will be manufacturing the MMRCA within X years, right?) wake-up. HAL still imports parts for the Cheetah helicopter (something it serial manufactured for a long time).<br /><br />TTAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-69768398356916826022010-09-20T21:46:01.197-07:002010-09-20T21:46:01.197-07:00well...after all some good news EJ200 and typhoon....well...after all some good news EJ200 and typhoon...!!!! ..\<br />LEKIN MMS ji novmber me a rahe uncle ke KIRAYE BHADE ka kharcha kis tarah chukayenge ...samjh nahi aa raha ha..Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-26992712289771981742010-09-20T18:22:52.513-07:002010-09-20T18:22:52.513-07:00Anonymous/TT @ 20:08
Nice write-up, and good poin...Anonymous/TT @ 20:08<br /><br />Nice write-up, and good point about the introductory pricing. So isnt the pricing for the GE 414's also introductory?<br /><br />You say "countrymen" and then use "..pay your way.."/ "..your government.." etc. Interesting phrasing.<br /><br />Yes, incompetency unfortunately has been the hallmark of our indigenous defence efforts, simply because its not privatized... hopefully that will change for the better.<br /><br />So what engine do you think would do justice in this scenario of engines/fighters...?Heberiannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-47649345264180765902010-09-20T10:01:54.833-07:002010-09-20T10:01:54.833-07:00What would be the quality of the tech transfer fro...What would be the quality of the tech transfer from EJ? It is unlikely that they will part with their cutting edge engine tech to GTRE and therefore compromise their own competitiveness. If they provide some old engine tech, keep in mind GTRE may still not have that, would it be wise to go for the EJ-200. The GE engines on the other hand are probably more cutting edge and provide more thrust and reliability. Would you want to compromise on the performance of the LCA based on some promises from EJ. What if the promises fall flat? Then the LCA will not realize its true potential, because of underpowered engines, but the GTRE will also lose out. Right now, objectively speaking, the GE engines are better and for the LCA program to make the giant leap forward it needs the most powerful and reliable engine out there.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-64645589233231393322010-09-20T07:47:17.290-07:002010-09-20T07:47:17.290-07:00If the EJ200 is selected for LCA, that is very goo...If the EJ200 is selected for LCA, that is very good news, as the LCAs won't be sanction prone. Doesn't rule out the fact that the MRCA will go to the americans. As many have pointed out, the MRCA will be a political decision, and given the closeness of MMS to US, it is in all probability going to be F/A-18 ( as F16 is way past its life). <br /><br />I don't understand how the engines for MRCA and LCA are linked? The DRDO/MoD rules clearly specify that the lowest bidder will get the engines contract for LCA. However, the MRCA contract doesn't explicitly say anthing. The honorable PM has mentioned that the strategic and political goals too would be part of large defence purchases. There has been part political decisions of going with SU-30MKI/Mig-29/Jaguar etc which the IAF had not whole-heartedly approved. <br /><br />So there is really nothing to fear/celebrate about the MRCA winner being the same as LCA engine winner.<br /><br />PS: Don't forget that the LCA FMS software was withheld by US and our scientist kicked out after the 1998 nuclear tests. Or that recently, Boeing offered to help with the accelarating the testing of LCA, but the US Govt withheld permission. I would be were vary of selecting GE engines for LCA as US seems to be actively sabotaging it.Ravinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-26069149681931158182010-09-20T07:38:02.631-07:002010-09-20T07:38:02.631-07:00No doubt that the EJ 200 is the more modern engine...No doubt that the EJ 200 is the more modern engine out of the two. On grounds of Technology Transfer-it is the safer bet. Getting hit by Sanctions-very low probability of that happening. Also very happy to note that the Tejas Mk2 would be combat-worthy with the new engines, unlike a dud it would have been with the current engines.<br /><br />But don't get too excited on the pricing front. Surprised that Mr Shooklaw has not pointed that out in his post. This is "introductory" pricing (almost like what India's leading private bank, the one with all the I's and the C's does to get customers)Once India bites the bullet, i.e. the jet, tools to service the engine (just an example-anything that is not covered in the contract will have the same fate) will cost equivalent to the engine. But hey, at-least you can pay your way out,right (just like we are doing for the Scorpene and the Gorshkov-God bless IT & Real Estate sectors). If the GE version is selected and we get slapped with sanctions, half our future air-force ( reasonably "safe" to assume that if EJ-200 is selected for the Tejas, EF would be the MMRCA and if GE 414 is the Tejas engine, F-18 is the MMRCA) would be in trouble.<br /><br />But then-this is the price to pay for incompetency. If the Kaveri was powering Tejas Mk2-it would have been a different story. So countrymen, rejoice. So what if your government/HAL/GTRE/NAL etc are incompetent, un-productive & corrupt; your taxes will be good enough to compensate for their in-competency.<br /><br />Btw, Mr Shooklaw-Any updates on the Kaveri testing in Russia? Would be curious to know how it is faring?<br /><br />TTAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-13251257176807781672010-09-20T07:20:11.076-07:002010-09-20T07:20:11.076-07:00Russia gets the PAKFA. They get happy.
France get...Russia gets the PAKFA. They get happy.<br /><br />France gets Mirage upgrade. They get happy.<br /><br />US gets happy with P3, C17 and C130<br /><br />That leaves Sweden and Eurofighter.<br /><br />Sweden = zero political value but outstanding, cheaper fighter.<br /><br />Euro consortium = higher pol benefits but way higher price of the jet.<br /><br />Bottomline: Gripen with GE engine still likely to be cheaper than Eurofighter with Eurojet engine.<br /><br />So ... L1 bidder Gripen (assuming MiG-35 is out) still has a chance. <br /><br />Also, why would America mind an order of 200 odd GE engines?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-8367778756935350092010-09-20T04:36:11.548-07:002010-09-20T04:36:11.548-07:00I hope the two teams have already been told about ...I hope the two teams have already been told about the other's bid. It won't be pleasant reading about the other's bid in the news media, especially for the one who bid the lowest.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-22238084302784260052010-09-20T04:35:17.338-07:002010-09-20T04:35:17.338-07:00Actually, the opposite works. The Ruskies are cove...Actually, the opposite works. The Ruskies are covered with Sukhois and Next Gen collaboration. The Europeans with EJ. It probably now makes sense for India to strategically balance out by getting a front rank fighter with an American Engine. Seems too fool hardy to put all the eggs into the European basket. After all,the under powered Jaguar is an object lesson on European engines.Gogolnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-15623434415718808022010-09-20T04:03:54.096-07:002010-09-20T04:03:54.096-07:00I think a couple of clarification is an attempt to...I think a couple of clarification is an attempt to get even a better bargain and why not. I think India should go for Eurojet and Eurofighter as it can use this huge order to align European policy makers opinion in line with its own geo-political-economic interests, besides, its a good engine and fighter plane.Ravihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10461934576590227388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-41234133090587157842010-09-20T02:09:27.967-07:002010-09-20T02:09:27.967-07:00At least something good can be expected to come ou...At least something good can be expected to come out now.Mr. Ranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-52029181482793110022010-09-20T01:07:26.854-07:002010-09-20T01:07:26.854-07:00I have two points to make. Keeping in mind that we...I have two points to make. Keeping in mind that we need to get most from these deals<br /><br />1. Why not split order between Rafale and EF ? <br />2. Please do not transfer any tech to any MOD owned house. Better transfer to some private firm like Tata, Mahindra or Relaince. HAL sucks and nothing will be achieved. HAL is like a poor fielder in a cricket teamShailhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12918926040025880201noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-32265309851024146952010-09-20T01:00:47.429-07:002010-09-20T01:00:47.429-07:00In the end Americans might clinch the deal.In the end Americans might clinch the deal.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-73280698555021125292010-09-20T00:37:51.690-07:002010-09-20T00:37:51.690-07:00yep mkii will be great. It will just come 10 years...yep mkii will be great. It will just come 10 years too late :-((<br />What do you think will come first PakFa or LCA mkII? LCA looks so yesterday. With plenty of money available and plenty of great fighters around...mki, mrca winner, pakfa....who would really want to fly the LCA. and why have it? it brings nothing to iaf or india? take off the indigenous glasses and really look how much of the plane is local....StarBluenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-69496881941072043552010-09-20T00:23:04.767-07:002010-09-20T00:23:04.767-07:00I always wanted the Euro fighter
great and wonder...I always wanted the Euro fighter <br />great and wonderful news .I love INDIA. <br /> Now I love europe also bcos LCA MK 2 will be great plane with a power ful engine E J 200 and AESA radar .<br /><br />And above all with 200 eurofighters porkis and chinkis will be FINISHED <br />EVEN IF THEY ATTACK TOGETHERAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-82943182482272764082010-09-20T00:03:03.272-07:002010-09-20T00:03:03.272-07:00What is rather interesting is how the Eurofighter ...What is rather interesting is how the Eurofighter lobby keeps coming back with newer and newer spins on why they should be the winners. Earlier there was the one vs two engine. Then came the NDTV "scoop". In between there was the political angle. Frankly, the list of gullible senior journalists is getting a little too tedious. From a purely technical point of view, the LCA will need significant design changes to accommodate the EJ. Chew on that.Maximusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-75015912523415102832010-09-19T22:49:11.416-07:002010-09-19T22:49:11.416-07:00@ajai sir
all said and done, it still doesnot giv...@ajai sir<br /><br />all said and done, it still doesnot give Eurofighter an edge over others in MMRCA deal.<br /><br />The recent grounding of Eurofighter by German and British AF due to issues related to ejection seat functioning (that killed a Saudi pilot in Spain) has to be taken into account.<br /><br />Deal winner or not pilot safety is paramount isnt itjoydeep ghoshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00038225081192821456noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-71468179373288451022010-09-19T22:26:04.247-07:002010-09-19T22:26:04.247-07:00Both engines are very good with regards to perform...Both engines are very good with regards to performance. But the GE side could not be trusted as we still see lots of sanctions on our laboratories and denial for consultancy for Naval LCA. The prospects of Typhoon shall not be affected with the latest grounding by German Airforce for Ejection Seat problems/checks. MMRCA shall only be awarded to Dassault or EADS if we really want edge in technology and indigeneous development.Spirit of Exuberancehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12533811143517193329noreply@blogger.com