tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post6521192911142913390..comments2024-03-29T05:44:18.835-07:00Comments on Broadsword by Ajai Shukla - Strategy. Economics. Defence.: The full case for scrapping the MMRCA tender and buying the F-35 Joint Strike FighterBroadswordhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13076780076240598482noreply@blogger.comBlogger108125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-84212506486910705452014-08-07T13:55:41.253-07:002014-08-07T13:55:41.253-07:00commenting "In fact, procurements like the F-...commenting "In fact, procurements like the F-35, which will strengthen the US-India defence relationship, will facilitate technology inflows that are needed for giving the LCA/AMCA Gen-5 characteristics"<br />How much of all that have happened with the big ticket p-8i, C-130, C-17 etc ?<br />The Fly-away and Licensed production is not the way aeronautical bases are built through an RFP which is balanced and not looking for the "Delight factor" and being the largest importer of technology we so proudly like to show-off about <br /><br />Remember the good old man-machine mix but having more control of what you own , develop and fly them be an owner of "most mustang" type of guzzlers which you flaunt that you own but rarely ever have the money or wherewithal to run or maint.<br /><br /> Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-48813149818089182582012-10-31T03:45:07.531-07:002012-10-31T03:45:07.531-07:00Mr Shukla, your argument is compelling but with a ...Mr Shukla, your argument is compelling but with a few holes. Firsty, IAF was very much there and effective in Kargil. Several important targets were taken out by IAF facilitating the army's operations. Further, While the F-35 would be a great buy despite ts cost and technology transfer issues. The US was reluctant to share its technology eve with its poodle the UK. India has already entered a joint development deal for the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) with Russia, so the stealth space is already spoken for. FGFA will have a respectable stealthy strike capability. the S-300 and ts clones are not invincible and can be dealt with. IAF has proven to be the world's most innovative Air Force since its formation in 1932. This also includes tactical innovation to defeat superior equipment or technological shortcomings in its own equipment( proven in the past in 1941-4 Burma Campaign, 1947-48 War in J&K, 1965 and 1971 Indo-Pak Wars and 1999 Kargil). Do not doubt the ability of the IAF to deal effectively with a foe fielding superior equipment.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-26789205229454443222012-07-14T12:53:09.481-07:002012-07-14T12:53:09.481-07:00Read the following article and then decide how is ...Read the following article and then decide how is F-35: http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/12/joint-strike-fighter-13-flaws/Spartacushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00822256209845700942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-59584300569053150142010-11-23T00:47:31.121-08:002010-11-23T00:47:31.121-08:00STOP CHECK FACTS GET BACKSTOP CHECK FACTS GET BACKAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-33371100457136467432010-11-21T09:36:08.540-08:002010-11-21T09:36:08.540-08:00Sir, No doubt you have an excellent study of all ...Sir, No doubt you have an excellent study of all the facts of requierment of MMRCA and futuristic Indian air force.<br /><br />as of Now F-35 is not a proven fighter and not is used in afgan or gulf war that we blindly support is puechase and scrappeing the MMRCA.<br /><br />MMRCA technically is not much far behind the 5th gen fighters but maxm tech can closely compared with these MMRCA. AS far as studies are concerned the LCA compared to 85% to the F22 and is almost the same category of eurofighter or the rafale. LCA is at very nitial stageas as the other fighter are but these comparision are done only in a real war as how well the fighter is handeled and performed in the war.<br />Mirage performed admireably well in kargil and that supported the ground forces.<br /><br />Only for Chinese attack we can think to buy F-35 but the 5th gen fighter we are already devloping our own fighter with russia.<br /><br />pakistan always had better equipmnt than india but defeted every time.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-27628744152552343952010-11-16T23:40:48.145-08:002010-11-16T23:40:48.145-08:00LHM
Respected Sir,
My humble two bits. Wd apprec...LHM<br /><br />Respected Sir,<br /><br />My humble two bits. Wd appreciate an opinion. The US has always allied with Pakistan. It didn't help us much even during the 1962 China war.<br /><br />Some articles I read suggest it's because Pakistan is geographically connected to both the Islamic countries of the middle east and to oil rich former Soviet countries like Kazhakstan, Turkmenistan etc. Makes perfect business sense.<br /><br />And now apparently, Afghanistan has trillion dollar reserves of rare earth metals the US really needs for its economy. Pakistan is the easiest port to export that produce.<br /><br />I'm beginning to believe the US will never be a steady ally. They need Pakistan more than it needs them. And China has treasury bills worth probably half the US economy.<br /><br />India has been a fool not to have cultivated our Asian neighbours. We had ancient cultural links with almost all of them. Many could help our defense industry.<br /><br />Beyond Singapore, Japan, Korea and the like. What prevents us from collaborating with say Ukraine or Chezckoslovakia to build tanks or planes. They have the know how and will offer it cheaper and more willingly than Russia. Or Iran? They hate the Taliban, only tolerate Pakistan and have a fine military industry <br /><br />I've also been wondering sir. If China can imitate a Sukhoi and make a JF 10, why can't we? Why do we spend years re-inventing the wheel, when there's a faster way? We've worked under embargoes before - what's a few more, especially when we are a growing economic power?<br /><br />I'm thinking - India had to make its own space. With its own rules. Everyone else will just pamper our egos. They won't let us win the wars we must.Jaithemonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00029329728101895751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-42659425564020961562010-11-16T22:50:48.612-08:002010-11-16T22:50:48.612-08:00Well done Ajai.
I think your comments on whether t...Well done Ajai.<br />I think your comments on whether the India Aerospace industry is in the terminal stages of obsolescence is worth thinking about.DEVASISnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-59565720716698679042010-11-12T08:11:27.836-08:002010-11-12T08:11:27.836-08:00@Heberian: An Alexander who commented on this very...@Heberian: An Alexander who commented on this very post on the 7th of November.Nakulnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-40600860928189104672010-11-11T08:28:07.672-08:002010-11-11T08:28:07.672-08:00Well I think for future run UCAV's will be mor...Well I think for future run UCAV's will be more productive for close air support & ground attack missions. Specially the stealth ones...the SAM's are a big problems for low flying Drones but, I think stealth & advance measures & large numbers can cope with it... And i think Air Force must stress more on UCAV's more than on AMCA!!!!... Well I myself am a pilot & I know any pilots reading this would not appreciate, but!!!! hehe... its more productive & will be less burden for the tax payers!!!Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17610389383234056053noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-5509924550383699942010-11-10T23:20:35.381-08:002010-11-10T23:20:35.381-08:00Yet again, let me remind you that the F-35 basical...Yet again, let me remind you that the F-35 basically does not fulfill the role that the IAF is looking for the MMRCA to do. F-35, so far, is known to be reasonably good only in the 'Attack' role. It is not suitable for the 'Bombing' aka 'Strike' role nor for the 'Interception' role. 'Air Superiority' and 'Air Dominance' are nowhere. The MR in MMRCA stands for Multi-Role. Even to fulfill the role of CAS and interdiction, it is only wise to get an aircraft that can also successfully conduct strikes (which, btw, imho is A-10).<br /><br />Your case against the Mirage-2000 is pointless as almost no fighter aircraft can deal with precision strikes in terrains as undulating as the Himalayas. Attack Helicopters are best suited for that role except that they cannot operate at Himalayan altitudes. I doubt if the F-35 can, too, in that thin air with its weak engine.<br /><br />Also, when not employing stealth in order to have increased payload, the F-35 is as easy to shoot down as a wild duck, with its lack of high speed and altitude operability. And when playing stealth with a severely limited payload, it's as good as a low flying (much cheaper) 'copter.<br /><br />And I'm not even mentioning the political hassles with the US.Nakulnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-60758731032034025902010-11-10T16:00:38.769-08:002010-11-10T16:00:38.769-08:00Nakul@01:34-
Would you please tell me which Alexa...Nakul@01:34-<br /><br />Would you please tell me which Alexander you are quoting about mountain warfare?<br /><br />Thank you.Heberiannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-65693124484237882822010-11-10T12:04:57.758-08:002010-11-10T12:04:57.758-08:00Oh, and since we have airbases in Assam, why do we...Oh, and since we have airbases in Assam, why do we even need long range Su-30s and Il-78 refuellers? A waste of money, that, too, Sir?<br /><br />Agreed, the IAF lacks in CAS and battlefield interdiction, but F-35 is not the answer to that, nor was MMRCA supposed to be. You shall see in the years to come (assuming you open your mind by then).<br /><br />I quote from one of your responses: "Have you seen the EUMA? No, you haven’t. Nobody has. But I can confirm to you that there is no such clause." How, exactly? Have YOU read it? Or do you work in the US Congress?<br /><br />Also, the IAF is not responsible for the Army's shorcomings in conflicts. If Pakistan could manage Kargil without using its Air Force and China didn't employ its own in the '62 war, our own Army should've been able to counter that by itself to sustain its claim of being one of the best. Like Alexander said, "Wars in mountains are not won in the air (China knows this, study its moves VERY CAREFULLY)."Nakulnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-42199119041468246692010-11-10T12:03:29.267-08:002010-11-10T12:03:29.267-08:00Fanboy, Fanboy!
First of all, I'm offended at...Fanboy, Fanboy!<br /><br />First of all, I'm offended at your absolutely uncalled for insult to my fellow country-men and -women. Clearly, you will believe what you want contrary to any and all evidence in front of you.<br /><br />Do you also believe the Australians cannot argue? Have you followed Air Power Australia's analyses of the F-35 and its dubious stealth characteristics?<br /><br />Oh, but I forget! Fanboy here is more intelligent than all the people sitting in think-tanks, the Government, the defence ministry, the Indian Air Force and anyone who thinks different from Col. Shukla. In your last post on this matter, you very conveniently chose not to respond to my arguments. You have also chosen not to respond to arguments from various other quarters cited by readers in links. I hope this time you will read the various reports your readers have pointed you to.<br /><br />Let's see the F-35 pass field trials in Leh and Jaisalmer. Oh Lord, make that happen soon to help this man emerge from his bubble.<br /><br />And of course, the Americans and the people running Lockheed Martin are all angels.<br /><br />No mention of turnaround time, maintenance costs and all other limitations of the F-35 here. A very partial analysis. Feels like I'm reading a Lockheed Martin publication.Nakulnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-66596872759070944272010-11-10T11:17:20.284-08:002010-11-10T11:17:20.284-08:00Ajai,
There have been many comments since your las...Ajai,<br />There have been many comments since your last reply in this thread. Please update this comments thread with a response. Thanks.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-79879206876954031532010-11-10T10:50:14.093-08:002010-11-10T10:50:14.093-08:00The F-35 is a good fighter and can very well compl...The F-35 is a good fighter and can very well complement the Su-30MKI.<br /><br />The Su-30MKI can fly air superiority missions, while the F-35 can perform strike missions.<br /><br />And the beauty is, the F-35 would not require a fighter escort all the time.<br /><br />But, the question is:<br /><br />Q. Can we trust the US?<br />A. No (period)<br /><br />If tomorrow, we have to use nuclear weapons against a foe, would the US make no fuss about it if we use the F-35 to do so?<br /><br />BTW, a very nice post, I criticized you when you advocated it in the first place, but this post really changed my view from the performance and need perspective, though I still think that we can't trust the US.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-53078136061135355102010-11-10T08:56:13.012-08:002010-11-10T08:56:13.012-08:00didn't i send you comment about the policy of ...didn't i send you comment about the policy of indian defense procurement for the last abotu 15 or so years...see the next step of Indigenization is alredy being taken...sandeep sakethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06885131052942188924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-2239189551153976752010-11-09T20:15:26.248-08:002010-11-09T20:15:26.248-08:00Anonymous/Akshay @ 21:22
I am not sure if Col. Sh...Anonymous/Akshay @ 21:22<br /><br />I am not sure if Col. Shukla will think this is relevant, so I will keep it brief so that it meets the verbosness condition.<br /><br />1) I am in complete agreement that we should be prepared for the worst possibilities, especially with respect to China. We cannot ensure our millions have 3 square meals a day if another 1962 happens.<br /><br />2) Having seen some amount of suffering personally, I truly respect your vision about a planet with shared resources for all, and hopefully with less conflict. I am sure most soldiers (however well trained/skilled/experienced) will tell you that there is'nt much glory in war.<br /><br />3) However, coming to China, sadly the facts are different. They absolutely dont believe they have anything in common with anyone else. Historically, to them "All under heaven" was China..and if yor are outside the China circle, then you are a barbarian. "Heavens manadate" meant China was to rule everything.<br /><br />So it is very hard for them to accept that apart from Taoism, many aspects of Chinese culture has roots in India, right from the fantastic Shaolin art, to Guan Yin and Budhha. So the discerning observer will notice that now China is unofficially(and therefore officially) promoting promoting Taoism, especially in hinterland. <br /><br />There is laudable persistence to the way they go about achieving set goals, and that is something we as a nation sadly are not good at. Note the recent addition to their "core interests". They even coin terms like "splittism" to define Tibets aspirations to cultural identity. <br /><br />For China, the only thing that matters is China. China wants to dominate ASia and if possible the world, at any cost, but subtley if possible. They would love to eradicate the humiliations of the last century or so by ensuring the primacy of China. The only major irritants are Japan, the US and India. Someday, Russia will wake up to new core interests in their Priamurye region, because it was once "Outer Manchuria".<br /><br />To think that there will be convergence between India and China because of Islamic extremism etc is extremely wishful, and it will be unwise to not be prepared for the worst. I am sure your sources in our army are quite concerned about the vast build-up in Tibet and in the regions near Himachal and across Chushul etc. I am sure you are aware of the Aksai Chin (and Ladakh) terrain scale model near the town of Huangyangtan. Surely that was not built for flood relief planning.<br /><br />The Chinese are great students of history and strategy..and they really believe in knowing their enemy well and preparing for battle at a time and occassion of their choosing. How well do we know our enemy? How well can we manipluate the ground situation if a war is thrust on us? <br /><br />Coming back to the F35, I think Col. Shukla's case is extremely well presented. However, I don't agree with it simply because we wont ever be able to afford the F35 in sufficient numbers to dissuade China. They do have reasonably and increasingly sophisticated airpower in much larger number than us, some excellent and comprehensive "indigenous" airdefence systems in place and a logistics system that is way ahead of us. So I personally feel that even if we dont have the F35, and settle for the Gripen or the Typhoon, at least we will have some relief in numbers. And the Gripen and Typhoon are not so bad in any case :)Heberiannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-4599867329019730732010-11-09T16:04:22.100-08:002010-11-09T16:04:22.100-08:00Whether Mr. Shukla makes a valid or invalid case f...Whether Mr. Shukla makes a valid or invalid case for the F-35s, that is not important at this stage. It is a bit too late to make such a case when the IAF/MOD are set to select the winner of the M-MRCA deal in a few months. He should have made this case back in 2002-07 when the IAF was putting together its RFP for M-MRCA. Trying to switch to F-35 at this stage will only delay a program that has already been delayed by 10 years.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-23139392938307946222010-11-09T15:10:27.928-08:002010-11-09T15:10:27.928-08:00In light of the recent developments with obama'...In light of the recent developments with obama's visit to India and him extending his arm in a fresh friendship to india,and asking to leave the cold war politics behind, I would love to see the F-35 instead of MRCA, ie. if its upto the mark!Riturajgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-3630190190502128392010-11-09T11:59:17.576-08:002010-11-09T11:59:17.576-08:00Mr Shukla, here is my honest opnion,,,all the 5-6 ...Mr Shukla, here is my honest opnion,,,all the 5-6 birds or F35 are fancy phoren birds,, extremely expensive and of little impact,,what we really need right now to keep panda and pure people at bay is long range mbrl, artillery, large assortment of mizziiles and Advanced AD and delivery systems,improvement in our force infra and land infra,,we should invest billions in our own lca/mca/kaveri ,,not on these fancy items,,which are not much use other than for photu shows,,as they will drop like flies when they enter panda space,,,F35 will simply fly and comeback,,not much impact to them.....topkingnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-21840691168488157222010-11-09T10:36:42.746-08:002010-11-09T10:36:42.746-08:00If we can purchase 126 Nos. of F-35, then obviousl...If we can purchase 126 Nos. of F-35, then obviously we can purchase 26 Nos. of F-35. So let our nation proceed first with the purchase of 26 Nos. of F-35. This shall not hinder the MMRCA and all the F-35 that are accrued now or later shall only add to our meager ground strike capabilities.Mr. Ranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-25131839691118169712010-11-09T08:23:14.210-08:002010-11-09T08:23:14.210-08:00Ajai:
For a moment I am convinced that F-35 is th...Ajai:<br /><br />For a moment I am convinced that F-35 is the way to go. After thinking over it, it gets more convincing. <br /><br />However - F-35 is not being offered on platter. For F-35 LM asked us to buy F-16IN first. <br /><br />If that is the case your entire argument is not valid. <br /><br />I am confused!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-14793761866209948092010-11-09T05:45:29.209-08:002010-11-09T05:45:29.209-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.sandeep sakethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06885131052942188924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-22352375575658180782010-11-08T21:25:18.054-08:002010-11-08T21:25:18.054-08:00I love the idea of adding F-35s to the IAF collect...I love the idea of adding F-35s to the IAF collection. I think it'll be awesome. <br /><br />But I wonder why would the United States even allow the sale of such hi-tech equipment to the Indian military.<br />We will have acquired (hopefully) the FGFA by 2020-2025, a machine comparable to the Raptor if not better. This challenges the technological edge that the USAF enjoys.<br />And it does not represent a huge commercial opportunity for the American businesses anyways. The Indian military would purchase 120 (maybe 200) units compared to a projected order of 2400+ units for the domestic market.<br />Moreover, the Americans (even though they may be allies) may not like to see such a powerful India. They are already having problems with the People's Republic and would definitely not want to deal with another emerging superpower.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-19200292565366227232010-11-08T08:53:30.101-08:002010-11-08T08:53:30.101-08:00hmm... forceful... but you know what's the rea...hmm... forceful... but you know what's the real problem we are debating f-35 while our air force is having problems puttin out enuf choppers in RED corridors or as the cag report showed maintain them properly...<br />i guess we need to look at this aspect very carefully.. BIG TICKET ok bt wat abt the basic workhorsessatyamnoreply@blogger.com