tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post5777785335777447830..comments2024-03-29T05:44:18.835-07:00Comments on Broadsword by Ajai Shukla - Strategy. Economics. Defence.: In a first, Army to fly attack helicopters: means reduced dependence on IAFBroadswordhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13076780076240598482noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-32240409209495028282012-11-25T19:03:02.945-08:002012-11-25T19:03:02.945-08:00Was ACM Browne determined to put his foot in his m...Was ACM Browne determined to put his foot in his mouth? Assuming that the statement attributed to him is true.<br />The fact of the matter is that the IAF has been constantly plagued by the attitude of "if it flies, its got to be ours"!<br />Even the IN suffered this pig-headed stance of the IAF vis-a-vis Maritime Air Assets for a long time, till ACM Moolgavkar acted wisely enough.<br /><br />Even earlier on, post independence this tussle had taken place between the IAF and IN. Luckily for the IN: first of all, the IAF knew squat about operating the ships that the aircraft would operate from. Secondly, the plans for the creation of the Fleet Air Arm were drawn up by the British. So in a manner of speaking, we can thank Lord Louis Mountbatten (who blessed the plan)for creating the nucleus of that force. Not forgetting that the IN (in the English tradition) enjoyed the status of Senior Service!<br /><br />But till that happened, the IN had to suffer. While the MR operations of IAF's MAO sometimes assumed comic to absurd garbs.<br /><br />Now that AAC has been given its required air-assets; it ought to remember that they are not "Boy's Toys". And create a credible Doctrine of application of those assets. We need to remember that the IAF and IA were frequently not on the same page wrt CAS. Now the IA can take care of a major part of that.<br /><br />@Joydeep Ghosh<br />Initially IAF pilots may well be seconded to fly the helos. But eventually they will be IA pilots who will be schooled in Land Warfare tactics as a base.<br />It seems that 1 out of 3 Apaches will be fitted with the Longbow Radars. They will operate with non-Longbow helos both Apache and others via data-links as hunter-killer packs.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-50658309632922174812012-10-20T03:48:27.264-07:002012-10-20T03:48:27.264-07:00No, Cost Guard won't need submarines may very ...No, Cost Guard won't need submarines may very well need AUVs just like BSF which doesn't need MBT but might need ICVs or APVs or equivalent systems, that all because they are only guarding force and need surveillance systems with enough firepower for self defence. <br /><br />Submarines are offensive systems just like MBTs and neither of which has any place in these forces. <br /><br />ACM words are stupidly desperate and disgusting if i might add. I don't believe he is actually comparing need of an offensive military structure with that of a paramilitary's!!!! <br /><br />ACM's ego driven analogy made only fool of him and force that he is representing.<br />Rahulnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-38835284273335423432012-10-14T21:23:27.354-07:002012-10-14T21:23:27.354-07:00why not have the helicopters with IAF, but keep th...why not have the helicopters with IAF, but keep them in a joint command under Army and IAF ?<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-62433126195679842402012-10-14T12:49:39.970-07:002012-10-14T12:49:39.970-07:00@Ajai, How do you feel, if Navy wants to have its ...@Ajai, How do you feel, if Navy wants to have its own armored brigade ? (assuming Army doesn't to expose it's armored vehicles to corrosive salty air).<br /><br />By letting, Army to have its own little aviation corps, we are not solving the problem reported by Army (tedious process etc), we are just working around the problem. Till now, it was helis, tomorrow, it may be Close Air Support for Army, submarines for Coast Guard, armored cars for Navy & Airforce.. etc...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-87586482331579954492012-10-14T10:44:26.580-07:002012-10-14T10:44:26.580-07:00You wouldnt believe how happy the Army guys are go...You wouldnt believe how happy the Army guys are going to be with this decision....about bloody time !!. Even in Siachen it was the Aviation guys who would risk their life and limb to rescue the poor infantry man. Logically this makes so much sense...Army guys understand the dangers, the difficulties and the sense of urgency the infantry needs..the reaction time is little. Don't get me wrong, no one braver than the Air Force pilots, but their sense of what the Army needs is often skewed and they are not ready when we need them. I feel some kind of personal victory as I have always associated with this issue in some form or the other in various areas when I served and have talked about it in various forums and blogs. I am sure the day is not far off when when the Aviation Corps will fly CAP's with LCA's in support of our Combat groups.. and Special Forces support.<br /><br />ex-Major Naveenhttp://cosmicwarrior.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-31095918245775813992012-10-14T10:36:50.100-07:002012-10-14T10:36:50.100-07:00when will IAF get over this parochial attitude? Th...when will IAF get over this parochial attitude? The helicopter and transport fleet they are operating is solely for the movement of troops, stores , ammunition and supplies of the army, both across a theatre of war and in between them, and they too know it. But to augment their numbers and and for a false ego they want to keep the helicopters and transports buttoned up. When needed to be deployed,especially when time is at a premium, the IAF takes forever to materialise support, and not without its fair share of bureaucratese - forms to be filled, request to be made in triplicate, all subject to the approval of some vague Air Formation which can veto it. Having the attack and transport helicopters available in a cantt means if there is a requirement of a chopper to take off in a hurry and land a platoon of special forces soldiers in the path of infiltrating / fleeing terrorists, the army can do so without having to sent in three different forms of having to provide reasons to do so. People who have taken part in active operation will vouch for the fact that at times every second matters and this urgency can only be understood by the army pilots who have been in the thick of it, and not by isolated, cocooned and sheltered worlds that Air Force Stations tend to be.<br /><br />About time.............Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-18710575028459832732012-10-14T06:05:58.563-07:002012-10-14T06:05:58.563-07:00MoD's 'divide and rule' policy between...MoD's 'divide and rule' policy between the Army and Air Force is going to be disastrous for the nation. instead of integration of the services, such steps would further isolate them..<br /> chamyalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00336765388263568189noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-42299605531225809612012-10-13T12:23:41.555-07:002012-10-13T12:23:41.555-07:00Although it is a somewhat late but certainly a goo...Although it is a somewhat late but certainly a good and desirable decision.Mr. RAnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-82849060736951707512012-10-13T08:20:20.435-07:002012-10-13T08:20:20.435-07:00so there will be two doctrines... russian doctrine...so there will be two doctrines... russian doctrine for iaf... us doctrine for army ac...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-86446058049287130042012-10-13T06:03:33.937-07:002012-10-13T06:03:33.937-07:00I wonder if the armies desire for their own air po...I wonder if the armies desire for their own air power derives from the fact that the IAF was unwilling to provide helicopter support in the first few days of Kargil. <br /><br />1) While I think that the IAF was correct in judging the threat against helicopters at that altitude to be too high, the fact remains that the army remained support-less.<br /><br />2) As we are unable to have a smooth quick reaction process due to the bureaucracy currently in place during interactions between the army and air force, I think that the army is justified in its requirement. <br /><br />May 11th - May 25 14 days is a long time.Rohan Kamalianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-60392773643104490382012-10-13T05:51:42.703-07:002012-10-13T05:51:42.703-07:00... http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/in-dubiou...... http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/in-dubious-battle-at-heavens-gate/article3992126.ece ... Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-50738755899207591122012-10-13T05:50:37.963-07:002012-10-13T05:50:37.963-07:00It is good that Army will have their air Cavalry o...It is good that Army will have their air Cavalry or flying horses (the real cavalry rather than "Mud Corps" cavalry) and helliborne assets: and medium sized helicopters to maintain their high altitude posts.<br /><br />Those with and without line-yards both can participate in flying and develop landed-air attitude rather then await for orders to flow down the IAF lands.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-33317863814115809902012-10-13T04:16:34.087-07:002012-10-13T04:16:34.087-07:00The decision took forever, but in the end they mad...The decision took forever, but in the end they made the right call. I don't know why the IAF was fighting this.<br /><br />- CujoAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-87177019012020644852012-10-13T03:14:50.400-07:002012-10-13T03:14:50.400-07:00Means... Strike formations will have... more teeth...Means... Strike formations will have... more teeth... and blund enemy formations...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-87209211768452570222012-10-12T22:57:30.494-07:002012-10-12T22:57:30.494-07:00I wonder what numb-nuts fool around at MoD? War is...I wonder what numb-nuts fool around at MoD? War is not a judicious or efficient use of military resources, but synergy of all resources to achieve the objective of complete annihilation of enemy forces. In today's world, India is faced with myriad of assymetrical warfare threats, where the enemy uses hit-and-run tactics. Such threats require nimble tactical forces with all special assets at their complete disposal at any time. Indian forces still take pride in their British regimental military structure, which was totally proven obsolete by German Army during WW2 70 years ago. This fact, raises the hair on my neck. Wonder what other structural defects the Indian forces suffer from! Verbal bravado like the recent news articles about the 50th anniversary of 1962, where comments by AirForce chief show his character as a finger pointer is really very bad, Is this the type of leadership we foster in our Armed forces? A good manager is the one who delegates responsibility to his sub-ordinates. MoD surely should not think of itself as the Boss of the Armed forces, instead act simply as enabler of resources. The Armed forces are the domain experts in their own domains, while the MoD's civilian leadership is not. This was amply proven during 1962, when non-domain experts tried to run the war, we all know what happened. Let 1962 be a lesson to the MoD and NSA chair warmers, leave fighting to the warriors, your duty is to enable the warriors to fight with full confidence of victory. This news of Armed Choppers for Army is a really late decision, and is a relief welcome. Although this does not absolve MoD from its serious management deficiencies and criminal neglect of national security on pretext of being Idiots.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-24958751999443486962012-10-12T21:47:00.066-07:002012-10-12T21:47:00.066-07:00@Ajai sir
I think ACM Browne made that acerbic st...@Ajai sir<br /><br />I think ACM Browne made that acerbic statement b'coz he knew what was going to happen.<br /><br />It means Mi25/35 as also the AH64 Apache Longbow will go to army<br /><br />btw you say '179 Light Combat Helicopters (LCHs) and 76 Rudras'<br /><br />It means a squadron of LCH each for the pivot corps and strike corps, but what about the distribution of 76 Rudras.<br /><br />Also there is nothing mentioned about the armed Mi17s, lancers.<br /><br />Can you provide some insight, as to who the pilots will be, will the IAF pilots who were flying these machines now fly them wearing IA/AAC gear or new recruitment is needed?<br /><br />Whats the difference between Attack Helicopter and Combat Helicopter?<br /><br />Will the IAF AH64 Apache Longbow have the dome like radars on top of rotors?<br /><br />thanks<br /><br />Joydeep Ghoshjoydeep ghoshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00038225081192821456noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-29271626847478579292012-10-12T21:12:55.055-07:002012-10-12T21:12:55.055-07:00The decision is good but at the time air force sho...The decision is good but at the time air force should also keep some attack choppers (of different type compared to army) to protect their bases & installations in case of enemy attack as jets can't be used in such scenario. If army gets apache,rudra,etc then let air force get mi28 or ka52 for the replacement of mi35. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-54375082121633243342012-10-12T21:07:11.772-07:002012-10-12T21:07:11.772-07:00Ajai ji,
One clarification though I may be wrong....Ajai ji,<br /><br />One clarification though I may be wrong...As per the statement of MOD after this decission, it was made clear that the immediate purchase of Apache is for IAF and not Army...<br /><br />As for the part that MOD has consistently avoided a decission, well, when has MOD made a decission? Anthony Firingi's happiest moment in life always comes when he has to avoid making a decission....Rahul Samanta(Kolkata)noreply@blogger.com