tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post5335185285331098927..comments2024-03-28T05:22:10.255-07:00Comments on Broadsword by Ajai Shukla - Strategy. Economics. Defence.: MoD rejects HAL’s proposal to build basic trainerBroadswordhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13076780076240598482noreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-52580406351710059852013-02-09T10:36:32.500-08:002013-02-09T10:36:32.500-08:00i think govt is neglecting ideginization.In Hal du...i think govt is neglecting ideginization.In Hal due to production load many good design engineer are working in shopfloor.HAL Management should form a best team now and make better trainer plane.a time period of 6 months should be given HAL to prove itself. we indians work our best in pressure. AN INDIAN to be engineer.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-58352151775943872612013-01-01T23:38:52.070-08:002013-01-01T23:38:52.070-08:00This is a delayed posting but for what it is worth...This is a delayed posting but for what it is worth....<br />My take is that the challenge of the technology is not stumbling block. We all have enough examples.<br />The crux is who is the captain of the project.An Engineer is a person who will rather see his 'plane fly than eat his dinner.They DO go through tension but they press on ahead. If you read Kapil Bharghava he writes about Willy Messerschmitt's hands trembling even as he was drinking the champagne after the HA 300's first flight.Here we weed out those types somewhere in the middle and instead project the "Good managerial ability" types which means people who are pleasant to his superior and has the rule book for a heart. None of the problems of the LCA-weight,AoA,spin test etc are even difficult but no one wants to run the risk of a crash in HIS watch. I feel this business of "collaboration" with foreign companies for "expediting" trials is not because of technology but possibly because of the fact there will be someone who can underwrite the crash if it comes. The HJT 36 has been sitting like a F**t in a trance because no one wants another crash- it was a flat spin judging by the wreck and fairly easy to cure but why bother.Prodyutnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-73227078638143808072012-12-27T09:48:16.272-08:002012-12-27T09:48:16.272-08:00Mr Ajai is the most respected thinker and writer o...Mr Ajai is the most respected thinker and writer on defence issues today. He is also a great patriot as I know him. I Feel that his article should bring some cheer and appreciation to fellow citizens working for well being of Indian defence. Experienced defence analysts should give a right direction to our policy makers and which should not be in direction like Pakistan where every aircraft is imported and maintained by foreign companies.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-60040193387902157102012-12-27T09:28:40.913-08:002012-12-27T09:28:40.913-08:00SOMEWHERE IN ABOVE COMMENT THIS APPEARED THAT HAL ...SOMEWHERE IN ABOVE COMMENT THIS APPEARED THAT HAL COULD NOT PRODUCE WORLD CLASS AIRCRAFT IN 60 YEARS. THIS IS TO BE APPRECIATED THAT TECHNOLOGICAL DEVELOPMENT IS NOT A FUNCTION OF TIME BUT R&D FUNDING AND TALENT AVAILABILITY. WHAT HAL HAS PRODUCED IN THROUGHAWAY FUNDING , NO ONE ELSE CAN MATCH AROUND THE WORLD. WHO CAN IMAGINE THAT SALARIES UNDER DEFENCE PUBLIC SECTORS INVOLVED IN DEVELOPMENT AND PRODUCTION OF INNOVATIVE PRODUCTS ARE LESSER THAN PSUs OPERATING PROCESS INDUSTRY.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-70508089472406910302012-12-26T09:37:06.587-08:002012-12-26T09:37:06.587-08:00IT IS THIRD GRADED SLAVE MENTALITY THAT INDIA COUL...IT IS THIRD GRADED SLAVE MENTALITY THAT INDIA COULD NOT PRODUCED AN INTERNATIONALLY SALABLE SCOOTER OR CAR OR COMPUTER CHIP OR OPERATING SYSTEM , WHY TO TALK ABOUT AIRCRAFT. IT IS ONLY HAL WHO COULD PRODUCE INTERNATIONAL CLASS AIRCRAFTS AND EXPORT THEM TOO. FIRST LET US LEARN TO APPRECIATE OUR PRODUCTS OUR PEOPLE AND OUR SPIRIT. THE PEOPLE WHO TALK ABOUT CHINA PLEASE SEE THEIR LIFE STYLE AND THEIR DEDICATION FOR DOMESTIC PRODUCTS HERE PEOPLE FEEL THAT TATA IS A SUB STANDARD CAR. Rajeev Agarwalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07952296162840717342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-78438160637867925302012-12-23T21:54:41.222-08:002012-12-23T21:54:41.222-08:00Just reverse engg the pilatus, Just reverse engg the pilatus, Sainulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15770791911134407408noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-63849993333150041222012-12-23T05:07:05.609-08:002012-12-23T05:07:05.609-08:00@23 December 2012 00:33...
"IT MUST BE SPLIT...@23 December 2012 00:33... <br />"IT MUST BE SPLIT UP "... <br /><br />Excellent Point... second that... to the hilt... Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-44327178368859119572012-12-22T11:03:13.404-08:002012-12-22T11:03:13.404-08:00HAL's MONOPOLY MUST BE ENDED. THIS COMPANY IS ...HAL's MONOPOLY MUST BE ENDED. THIS COMPANY IS SINGLY RESPONSIBLE FOR STYMYIENG THE AEROSPACE DEVELOPMENT OF THE NATION.<br /><br />SINCE THE LAST FEW DECADES, ALL THAT HINDUSTAN AERONAUTICS HAS DONE IS LICENSE ASSEMBLY OF FOREIGN AIRCRAFT. ITS MONOPOLY OVER THE IAF HAS ALLOWED IT TO NEVER EVER UNDERTAKE SERIOUS DESIGN WORK OF ITS OWN OR ITS OWN R&D.<br /><br />IN THE PAST 60 YEARS OF ITS FUTILE EXISTENCE, HINDUSTAN AERONATICS HAS NOT BEEN ABLE TO DEVELOP A SINGLE AIRLINER, A SINGLE TRANSPORTER OR A SINGLE FIGHTER JET. <br /><br />HAL SIMPLY IMPORTS READY-MADE KITS FROM ABROAD, AND FIXES THE THE NUTS-BOLTS TO ASSEMBLE THE AIRCRAFT BEFORE MAKING THE DELIVERY TO THE IAF.<br /><br />THOUGH DHRUV IS A SUCCESS (AND A PROUD ONE AT THAT), IT IS A LONE EXCEPTION. THE MOST MISMANAGED PROJECT IS IJT-SITARA, UNFORTUNATELY.<br /><br />AND BECAUSE OF ITS PET PROJECTS, DHRUV AND SITARA HAL HAS NEGLECTED THE TEJAS PRODUCTION WITH ADA. IT DEEMS IT OF A LOWER PRIORITY !<br /><br />HAL MUST EITHER BE DIVESTED TO PRIVATE SECTOR, OR IT MUST BE SPLIT UP (JUST LIKE CHINESE AEROSPACE COMPANIES FIERCELY COMPETE WITH EACH OTHER, THOUGH ALL OF THEM ARE STATE-OWNED).<br /><br />THEN AND ONLY THEN WILL INDIA'S AEROSPACE INDUSTRY PROSPER.<br /><br />HAL'S UNILATERAL MONOPOLY WILL KEEP STIFFLING INDIAN AEROSPACE SECTOR.Abhimannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-64843403631993532702012-12-21T14:56:48.173-08:002012-12-21T14:56:48.173-08:00This could actually be a good opportunity for HAL....This could actually be a good opportunity for HAL. With a revenue of close to $3 Billion and profits of $500 Million, HAL could take this opportunity to finance the development of the HTT-40 as an in-house project and once successful,without even making a dent in its profits, choose to either market this internationally or nationally.<br /><br />But this takes (in descending order of importance) balls, confidence in your product and people, a visionary leader who can motivate his people to scale greater heights and money.<br /><br />The realist in me says HAL can't do this and if HAL does not seize an opportunity like this, it is just another organization like BSNL or MTNL, waiting for its death in the hands of some private organization.The idealist in me hopes HAL can put up an ONGC/SBI act. <br /><br />GuruGuruhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17207506803118876840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-51927224239284584152012-12-20T09:25:12.269-08:002012-12-20T09:25:12.269-08:00PSU prices are ridiculously marked up,with standar...PSU prices are ridiculously marked up,with standard margins of profit and costing that have survived only with govt.patronage.What is more,the goods delivered are also abysmal in quality compared to the prices charged,Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-16529763747742289282012-12-20T08:58:44.038-08:002012-12-20T08:58:44.038-08:00Why Indians pay for government run companies is be...Why Indians pay for government run companies is beyond comprehension.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-71166719208343071972012-12-20T08:12:34.583-08:002012-12-20T08:12:34.583-08:00@Prodyut... 19 December 2012 09:53... HAL can'...@Prodyut... 19 December 2012 09:53... HAL can't/couldn't learn from tank... any amount of projects won't/wouldn't... either help... what do you do... with such a student... fail him/her... and make way for... brighter... newer students... one's failure shouldn't be... as ransom to a nation... let brighter... newer... students succed... in place of failed students... let darwinsm succeed... for a brighter... India... Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-29900209869525792192012-12-20T07:44:40.175-08:002012-12-20T07:44:40.175-08:00Prof. Prodyut Das, I have always enjoyed your arti...Prof. Prodyut Das, I have always enjoyed your articles.<br /><br />I also have the same question how is the HAL HTT-40 TWICE as expensive?<br /><br />I see tenders continuing to flow from HAL for HTT. I think they would revise their price similar to your case.<br /><br />IndranilAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-8143208730364328322012-12-20T03:40:44.931-08:002012-12-20T03:40:44.931-08:00Is the HAL or MoD even aware of real world prices ...Is the HAL or MoD even aware of real world prices ? 60 or even 30 crores for a basic trainer is preposterous. You can make kit based jets with ultra modern electronics for $100 K which is about 50 lac rupees. and these turboprops which would be mass manufactured are supposed to cost 100 times more ? how much are the cuts in the defence industry these days ? any accountability left anywhere ? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-44732335217191429532012-12-20T02:25:05.452-08:002012-12-20T02:25:05.452-08:00Indranil
If you promise not to tell any one
yes
Indranil<br />If you promise not to tell any one<br />yes<br />Prodyutnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-16454949566892177832012-12-20T02:25:00.889-08:002012-12-20T02:25:00.889-08:00I don't why u all keep praising the firangs ,I...I don't why u all keep praising the firangs ,I agree it takes us time to build such aircrafts ,even we might fail to make them but it is very important to learn .we learn better when we fail,if there is a war and we need some important parts for the imported aircrafts and the procuring country tells us that this guy has put some sanctions on you so we can't supply the aircraft.what do u do.its better to eat ur mothers food at home than go to a restaurant!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-88707943710727074692012-12-19T20:45:25.461-08:002012-12-19T20:45:25.461-08:00Without anyway compromising my earlier post I was ...Without anyway compromising my earlier post I was wondering on this "anomaly" which I would like to share.<br /><br />The cost of Labour is the single biggest component in the cost of an aircraft today.This is more so in a simple type. How did it come about that HAL managed to get a price twice that of Pilatus who as Swiss are allegedly genetically programmed to charge heavily ?! <br /><br />It has been my experience career wise as Mr.Jekyll- that apart from the material cost which is known fairly exactly the rest is in muddy doubt. The direct manpower cost is less well known- and is often grossly over estimated -"just to be safe"- in several stages and when it comes to "overheads" -everyone knows the figure but no one knows the basis!<br />In fact "the quality of Information" can often be a heavy tail to wag the project dog. <br />A few years back we were asked to quote for a "secret " Aeronautical project and I remember we could scale our initial estimate down by four times simply by insisting on better quality of Information inputs required for teh cost estimate. We won the contract,needless to say.Prodyutnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-90987628954092936892012-12-19T12:21:04.828-08:002012-12-19T12:21:04.828-08:00Now MOD, HAL and IAF should be combined in spirit ...Now MOD, HAL and IAF should be combined in spirit and proceed with the development and production of Tejas Mk1-(LIFT). This will be the best option carried forward on well proven track and shall compensate for all the previous errors made in our trainer aircraft developments.Mr. RAnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-36126422730703649992012-12-19T11:16:59.446-08:002012-12-19T11:16:59.446-08:00Poster at 09:53.
Are you Prof. Prodyut Das?
Ind...Poster at 09:53.<br /><br />Are you Prof. Prodyut Das? <br /><br />Indranil RoyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-66105619323927072702012-12-19T07:16:12.985-08:002012-12-19T07:16:12.985-08:00They will be opening champagne bottles in the pila...They will be opening champagne bottles in the pilatus office in Switzerland. Now they can suck the money out of India. Hardcore lobbying pays dividends. HAL should use own funds to compete with Pilatus and fly a proto a/c before the first batch of 75 PC7 s are delivered to IAF. Maybe that will make them sit up and take notice. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-18629792542450441682012-12-19T05:16:55.620-08:002012-12-19T05:16:55.620-08:00I agree with Satish and Abid. Only thing I would ...I agree with Satish and Abid. Only thing I would add is though we should continue to import for our needs in such situations where local product is either not cost effective or is just not available, but MOD should continue to fund either HAL, NAL, or private partners to keep the innovation efforts going. I personally feel that all the agencies should work together on such development projects as this could be an investment for the future of Indian aviation. Such projects could also be funded through educations programs to help develope and maintain interest in this field. <br /><br />If we step-away completely, then all that we have gained LCA and other projects that may be considered as failed projects, however insignificant that it may seem, it needs to be further developed. At the very least it could become and example of how not to do things for the future generations.<br /><br />We have relied on TOT as a way to build our capabilities. Clearly that has failed. For MMRCA competition, people everywhere felt that we should buy from a partner that offers the most screwdrivers. We have justified buying from the Russians for the very same reason, but what have we gained. No real technology, and in fact we can't even set-up a real assembly line for Tejas etc. TOT that results in higher cost and provides no significant gains is just not worth the time and effort. The highly educated work-force that spends time assembling TOT stuff could be better utilized elsewhere, such as R&D. And, when importing, we should consider purchasing the product that is most efficient (meets requirements at the lowest price, do hell with TOT, we gained nothing from it so might as well let the contractor build it for us, especially if they can do it faster and at a lower cost. The savings can be focused towards new ideas, however small they may seem at first.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-48991828163879670392012-12-19T04:30:17.417-08:002012-12-19T04:30:17.417-08:00HAL has lately found out... that they sorely miss....HAL has lately found out... that they sorely miss... basic aircraft development skills... since they were happy to do... cut and paste job... during a golden oppurtunity to learn... from pioneer Tank... still doing the cut and paste jobs... hawk... su-30... jaguar... mig 21 23 27 29... cheetah... chetak... Do228... so this endeavour... HTT-40... Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-60656336977680451712012-12-19T04:18:30.517-08:002012-12-19T04:18:30.517-08:00The interests of the country is paramount. In this...The interests of the country is paramount. In this respect, HAL MUST NOT be equated as India. While it is important that as a nation we develop our own aircraft manufacturing capability, it must not be pre-supposed that the aircraft manufacturing can only be done by HAL. We recently had a demonstration of the capability of our private companies manufacturing prowess when TATA made an artillery gun for the Indian Army. Granted that the TATA must the have only taken the technology from some foreign company and then only carried out basic manufacturing and assembly within the country. But its a step in the right direction and we can follow a similar part in this preset case too by inviting our private sector companies to make a much needed basic trainer for the IAF.Hindnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-79009224449300147542012-12-19T02:47:38.713-08:002012-12-19T02:47:38.713-08:00Hallelujah!!
This must be a Christmas miracle if...Hallelujah!! <br /><br />This must be a Christmas miracle if the MOD is finally going to tell HAL to "shove it!" when they try to scam more public money for their disgraceful and failed products. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-67107151341463560132012-12-19T01:43:33.266-08:002012-12-19T01:43:33.266-08:00Great news - HAL cannot be rewarded for incompeten...Great news - HAL cannot be rewarded for incompetency - be it tejas, IJT or the basic trainer <br /><br />HAL - first deliver on the jobs given to you...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com