tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post2414482748285682326..comments2024-03-28T05:22:10.255-07:00Comments on Broadsword by Ajai Shukla - Strategy. Economics. Defence.: Most “extras” in the 36-Rafale contract were also specified in the 126-Rafale tenderBroadswordhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13076780076240598482noreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-38847674876476950582019-06-05T08:08:09.035-07:002019-06-05T08:08:09.035-07:00The supreme Court has vindicated the deal and has ...The supreme Court has vindicated the deal and has also stated that specific details cannot be mentioned as they influence national security. It's time for the media and general public to show some faith in the SC and stop digging into this issue.Shreehari Lelehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07678059884068412423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-2863659183964174842018-11-14T18:35:09.733-08:002018-11-14T18:35:09.733-08:00Must be so very nice in your drug addled world. Must be so very nice in your drug addled world. Dumb_Dodohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08318988483825950115noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-64151875862047724032018-11-13T08:45:16.016-08:002018-11-13T08:45:16.016-08:00UPA government was stupid. But the buck has to sto...UPA government was stupid. But the buck has to stop here. NDA should not take advantage of that stupidity. In all areas. Period.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04028936806040056672noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-76811689353341861652018-11-11T12:34:03.104-08:002018-11-11T12:34:03.104-08:00NSR says ---
Just remember the Mirage 2000 upgrad...NSR says ---<br /><br />Just remember the Mirage 2000 upgrade saga...<br /><br />India paid $45 /fighter to upgrade it and it does not even include a new engine...At that time Lockheed Martin was selling their top F-16 without armaments for that price...<br /><br />I think France has inside track in Defense and IAF branches so they know all the strengths and weaknesses and drag the contract negotiations for long time until the situation becomes very desperate...<br />So you end up updating Mirage-2000 for $45 million<br />So you end up buying Rafale at whatever price France dictates...<br /><br />However, considering the two nuclear armed neighbors and many wars and skirmishes fought with them, India badly needs Rafale…<br />So they must order 36 or 54 more with plenty of Meteor missiles and locate them at strategic locations and it will deter the enemy...<br /><br />On the other hand, India should have gone to G2G on SU-34 fullback fighter bomber with Russia and it did real well in Syria and could have been a great deterrent to Pakistani and China...<br />They are cheap and also use same heritage AL-31FP engine as SU-30MKI...<br />India could have bargained hard for full engine technology and avionics transfer...<br /><br />I guess IAF is obsessed with fancy stuff...they have no vision...how can they with AM like Tyagis…<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-82223879312763036572018-11-11T03:57:37.225-08:002018-11-11T03:57:37.225-08:00specified... not accounted... broke-down...specified... not accounted... broke-down...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-6691917314269263622018-11-11T03:57:03.871-08:002018-11-11T03:57:03.871-08:00Sir, can you please show me the deal agreed and si...Sir, can you please show me the deal agreed and signed with UPA and the detailed pricing of all the components (basic aircraft, weapons, electronics, training, maintenance, etc.)? And then we can compare it with the NDA signed deal. Until then it is apples to oranges comparison when you compare it with the RFP (there was not deal signed with UPA and for a reason). It like me saying I have a budget to buy a car which the dealer has not agreed to. But I am saying that my friend paid more than me, although I never bought it. And there is no clarity in terms of what I was buying and what extras he got when he bought the car. Also, you keep saying that we lost out on technology. But there is a separate 114 aircraft to be bought which will bring the tech. And it be Rafale or some other plane. If we had signed 124 Rafale then it would have come with it, now it will come with the 114 aircraft. So are you missing this points, purposely or otherwise?Teewsbbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11558172919681765977noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-83175355369775865152018-11-11T01:14:07.362-08:002018-11-11T01:14:07.362-08:00performance payments... Experience... Mirage 2k......performance payments... Experience... Mirage 2k... over the years... can't afford lightning II fiasco... DOWN 31...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-75037036006522564542018-11-10T21:48:09.931-08:002018-11-10T21:48:09.931-08:00Dear Editor, thank you for the very thorough repor...Dear Editor, thank you for the very thorough reporting on Rafale aircraft acquisition. <br /><br />However, can we now please *folds hands* move to other important subjects. For example : what is going on with our cantonments under the current Raksha Mantri ? <br /><br />Why has she only invited retired Vice Presidents of cantonment boards and a retired IAS official to reform control of Defence Land and no serving Military officials to a meeting about cantonments in Pune ? <br /><br />Can you or any of your journalist bretheren please ask her for an interview and question her on exactly what is her vision, intention and strategy regarding cantonments ? <br /><br />Can you kindly investigate whether she has any personal benefit in all of this...such as house, property or profit or even an advantageous relationship with the builder/real estate Mafia ? <br /><br />These are the topics that really impact a lot of people. Retired or serving, civillian or military. <br /><br />ThanksJean Luc Picardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07523465808756925391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-72026155329567364452018-11-10T20:39:58.790-08:002018-11-10T20:39:58.790-08:00Great investigation SirGreat investigation SirAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10530262894497883694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-17005571739715166022018-11-10T10:05:49.164-08:002018-11-10T10:05:49.164-08:00Then why couldn't the previous UPA Govt conclu...Then why couldn't the previous UPA Govt conclude the deal?<br />Does your argument also factor in HAL's 2+ labor hours, escalation & conversion rates? (Quality of work, pls refer SU30-MKI).<br />Does previous "Extras" also include Scalp & Meteor missile? Specify.<br />How did earlier defense contracts help Indian defense industry in self sufficiency? (Refer Boeing)Except Bofors.<br />We have faced & facing the realities of over-dependency on one country for defense needs. Even with TOT, refer T-90 tank, amphibious vehicles.<br />At-most we can speculate based on certain sources, but decisiveness matters when it comes to defense matters.<br />Only few are privy to defense related matters, more over your not serving or your previous rank doesn't ensure you all info. <br />You referred to longest serving RM, what is his contribution. There isn't basic rifle/bullet proof vest/helmets till now, leave alone capital assets.Only Navy has done some progress towards indigenization..... jayachandranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18309062977638433813noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-61605505337258335072018-11-10T06:35:22.022-08:002018-11-10T06:35:22.022-08:00a lot of good things are going on and all you care...a lot of good things are going on and all you care is to sniff a scandal where none exists! anyways matter is before the supreme court so wait for a month and then everything will be clear....<br />what I find bizarre is the figure you quote from the previous mmrca contest - we can't take this as baseline as there was no contract and hence this value could have moved in any direction. so this is a flawed thinking and argument. I firmly believe that there can't be corruption in a G2G deal as there are too many people involved. offsets is another topic altogether. if indeed reliance benefited then it must show in his companies balance sheet and offsets in India take decades to fructify. besides that company is busy making parts for civilian plane! <br />I feel that the new MMRCA contest will not materialise as we won't have the budget to buy so many planes, we should just focus to add more tejas and sukhois both of which can be built by the super efficient HAL. we should also focus on force multipliers.<br />I know rafale is keeping you busy but can you also write on recent important inductions (arihant, artillery etc)!! Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-19079602963257476092018-11-10T06:13:58.737-08:002018-11-10T06:13:58.737-08:00Meteor and scalp could have been purchased in 2025...Meteor and scalp could have been purchased in 2025. ONCE THE R&D COST HAD BEEN AMORTIZED....DOKLAM/ Kargil like situations stare us in the face. <br /><br />126 RAFALES ARE MORE THAN ENOUGH TO BLOCK PAK AIRFORCE. Vikram_prasadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06198432511981448264noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-61857800731288330532018-11-10T05:55:34.290-08:002018-11-10T05:55:34.290-08:00India Modi ke hatho me safe nahi he. India Modi ke hatho me safe nahi he. ARUN MEHTA.https://www.blogger.com/profile/07098840628267551458noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-59593137242128787782018-11-10T05:15:24.313-08:002018-11-10T05:15:24.313-08:00Modi govt has done a national service by ordering ...Modi govt has done a national service by ordering these plans.Congress wanted a cut for Vadera to which Dusalt did not agree.Hence the deal was cancelled by Manmohan govt.India 2050https://www.blogger.com/profile/18128856335430969603noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-65546064915644202962018-11-10T05:07:58.047-08:002018-11-10T05:07:58.047-08:00Nicely written sir.Nicely written sir.bijjuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13491494176169336919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-65506443162796054592018-11-10T02:15:42.934-08:002018-11-10T02:15:42.934-08:00Quoting from the dna 26 January 2014 edition ~
&qu...Quoting from the dna 26 January 2014 edition ~<br />"India’s biggest deal of procuring 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) for $18 billion (Rs90,000 crore) has hit rough weather. Two years after French aircraft maker Dassault Aviation bagged the deal for its Rafale fighter jets on account of being the lowest bidder, its cost has now shot up by 100 per cent.<br /><br />In January 2012, when Rafale was declared the winner, its price was quoted between $60-65 million (Rs373-Rs400 crore). A top defence ministry official said the price of a fighter jet made by Dassault could now cost $120 million (Rs746 crore). The second bidder, Eurofighter, had quoted $80-85 million (Rs497-Rs528 crore).<br /><br />The price hike would mean that the deal would cost India nothing less than $28-30 billion (Rs1.75 lakh crore-Rs1.86 lakh crore),” said an Indian Air Force (IAF) official, who is privy to discussions of the cost negotiation committee.<br /><br />The defence ministry headed by AK Antony has developed cold feet after the cost doubled compared to the original estimate. With the general elections just months away, Antony is unsure about the fate of the deal, a defence ministry official said. “As the negotiations continue, the cost is spiralling out of hand. It is a major worry,” he said."andyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06531448019825751202noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-41152189859246514012018-11-10T02:10:51.390-08:002018-11-10T02:10:51.390-08:00Price quoted by Dassault for 126 Rafale in 2012 wa...Price quoted by Dassault for 126 Rafale in 2012 was around 18 billion dollars as rightly reported by you, but it was jacked up in subsequent negotiations to around $30 billions by January 2014 when UPA was still inpower, Which means that Manmohan Singh and company were criminally negligent in not closing the Rafale deal quickly in 2012.<br /><br />Now you are quoting the 2012 offer but omitting the subsequent price escalation by 2014 and stating that BJP is responsible for paying 40%more than 2012 price,when the benchmark should be January 2014 price offered by Dassault.<br /><br />Note that the NDA was NOT in power either in 2012 or jan 2014.Maybe you should ask your MOD friends and confirm what Dassault was demanding by January 2014.This 40%extra canard has gone for a toss.andyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06531448019825751202noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-6963669525124702242018-11-10T00:00:33.992-08:002018-11-10T00:00:33.992-08:00Read only for entertainment value. Load of nonsen...Read only for entertainment value. Load of nonsense. How can you compare a UPA deal that was never inked with a NDA contract that was actually signed. The best we have to compare with is the Qatari and Egypt deal. And it is comparable, period.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246451300952885757noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-8133783799341058422018-11-09T21:45:40.243-08:002018-11-09T21:45:40.243-08:00Note that 213 million dollar figure per airframe o...Note that 213 million dollar figure per airframe of Rafale arrived at in the IPCS special report does not include cost of weapons or any other add ons.andyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06531448019825751202noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-25797738434451881592018-11-09T21:35:26.652-08:002018-11-09T21:35:26.652-08:00Here is a passage from a piece written by Abhijit...Here is a passage from a piece written by Abhijit Iyer Mitra for the Institute of peace and conflict studies titled~ India and the Rafale~Anatomy of a bad deal. Written in April 2012.It should enlighten about the cost per unit in 2012.<br /><br />Quote :"However in the 2009 French parliamentary report on defence finances the total cost of the Rafale programme spread over the 180 airframes produced so far comes to 39.6 billion Euros (55.44 billion USD at the 2009 annual average conversion rate of 1.4) – a whopping 308 million dollars per plane. This makes the Rafale – going by French official documents the single most expensive plane on earth – just 20 million short of the F-22. Needless to say inflation factored in the 2012 prices will be significantly higher. Simply taking the non procurement costs of the <br />Rafale thus far provides further reason for worry. Subtracting the unit procurement cost of 62 million from the 308 million leaves one with a <br />non productive cost of 246 million a plane – i.e. the plane costs nearly 4 times the price of the actual hardware involved. Multiply this by the <br />180 airframes produced till 2009 the total non productive costs factor in at 44.280 billion USD. Amortising this over the planned French production run of 294 airframes, this cost stands <br />at 151 million USD per plane. Added to the 2006 unit production cost this works out to 213 million USD per plane."<br />andyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06531448019825751202noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-18548136674493398222018-11-09T21:17:00.674-08:002018-11-09T21:17:00.674-08:00Quote:;"The note accessed by Times Now dates ...Quote:;"The note accessed by Times Now dates back to 2012 and has been signed by the then defence minister AK Antony as well as the defence secretary at that time, Shashi Kant Sharma. The note reveals that Antony wanted the selection of lowest bidder for the Rafale aircraft re-examined. The move reversed an 11-year process of determining the lowest bidder, Rafale, thereby effectively compromising India’s security."<br /><br />As I stated in a previous comment the L1 status of Dassault was in doubt,that means they had fudged the figures to emerge the lowest bidder in 2012.The above note signed by RM.Antony corroborates this fact.<br /><br />So the whole case you are trying to build using the 2012 offer by Dassault is on shaky ground.The HAl was quoting 3 times the man hours to manufacture the Rafale than quoted by Dassault who would not guarantee the HAl produced Rafale.Cost of 50 to 60 critical items was not factored in the offer.<br /><br />Actually UPA or NDA should have kicked Dassault out for their perfidy but this did not happen,instead NDA chose to kick the MMRCA tender and buy 36 Rafale in a g to g deal.Thats because of the IAFs insistence on Rafale, but thats another story.<br /><br />Finally stop treating the 2012 offer as the FINAL orice,it was not.It was subject to further negotiations as subsequently proven.andyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06531448019825751202noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-16117825478693944782018-11-09T20:01:12.119-08:002018-11-09T20:01:12.119-08:00Re:"If the government had signed the 126-MMRC...Re:"If the government had signed the 126-MMRCA contract with Dassault on April 10, 2015 instead of announcing the 36-Rafale buy, the first squadron of 18 flyaway Rafales would be currently in delivery and completed by April 2019."<br /><br />If Manmohan Singh and company had signed the Rafale contract in 2012 then the first 18 would have been delivered by 2017 and the next lot would have been rolling out from a production facility in India.Hold them accountable for making a mess of the MMRCA tender before going into a biased spiral. Andynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-54811222400782599032018-11-09T19:54:07.744-08:002018-11-09T19:54:07.744-08:00Colonel you are writing about why the 2007/2012 of...Colonel you are writing about why the 2007/2012 offers by Dassault were so good but you are not addressing why they were not taken up and converted into a deal by A.K Antony,Manmohan Singh etc.<br /><br />If everything was fine and as per IAF/MOD and GOI wishes Why the deal was stuck in negotiations more than 2 yrs after 2012?Seems that in your bias against the current dispensation you are deliberately overlooking these lacunae.Those people have to be held responsible for oversight that led to the logjam in the MMRCA tender.The simple fact is the terms of the 2012 offer were unacceptable to Manmohan Singh and company and what they were negotiating for was unacceptable to Dassault,hence there was no culimination of any sort to the 2007 and 2012 offers by the French.So harping on and on about how good those two offers were just doesn't gell with the actual facts of the time.<br /><br />If Dassault SIGNS Rafale supply contracts with Egypt and Qatar at per unit costs of 263 and 217 million euros,why should they supply to India at 155 million euros a click?Last I heard the French dont have Diwali sales.<br /><br />You need to address the issues of why the offers were not converted into agreement by Manmohan Singh /Sonia Gandhi if you want us not to question partisan reporting.Andynoreply@blogger.com