Monday, 21 September 2009

Navy backs the Tejas with a Rs 900 crore cheque


A file photo of the first twin-seater LCA, undergoing final assembly in HAL, Bangalore. The Naval LCA is based upon this twin-seater design




by Ajai Shukla
ADA, Bangalore
Business Standard, 21st Sept 09

Talk to navy fighter pilots about their air force counterparts and you cannot miss the message: air force pilots are pussycats… real fighter jocks fly from ships!

One of the most breathtaking sights in military aviation is a modern fighter landing on an aircraft carrier deck. Flying in at over 250 kilometres per hour, it must halt within 100 metres, one-tenth the distance available to most land-based fighters. The pilot aims at a cable stretched across the landing area; a tail hook on the fighter’s rear fuselage catches the cable, effectively dragging the aircraft to a halt before it runs out of landing deck, subjecting the pilot to a deceleration 4.5 times the force of gravity.

It is called a THUMP-BASH technique. As the fighter thumps down onto the deck, the pilot bashes forward his throttle, revving up the engines to full power. It seems a crazy thing to do when trying to halt really quickly, but there’s a reason: if the tail hook misses all three arrestor cables, the fighter must have the power and speed to get airborne again before the end of the flight deck.

To hit the arrestor cables accurately, the pilot must descend steeply, hitting the deck twice as hard as his air force counterparts, who enjoy the luxury of levelling out at ground level, descending slowly till the wheels touch the runway.

“An arrested landing on an aircraft carrier is actually a controlled crash,” naval flight instructors invariably warn their cadets.

If it takes a Top Gun pilot to pull off such landings, it takes a superbly engineered aircraft to repeatedly absorb the stresses of these controlled crashes. The naval variant of India’s Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) is poised to enter this challenging playing field. And its prospects have been boosted by the Indian Navy’s commitment to indigenisation.

Business Standard has learnt that the navy has okayed the placement of an order for six Naval LCAs. At an approximate cost of Rs 150 crores per aircraft, that will provide a Rs 900 crores infusion into the Naval LCA programme.

That investment in the Tejas programme is rooted in the navy’s plan to operate both light and medium fighters off its aircraft carriers. The Naval LCA will supplement the heavier Russian Mig-29K, which has already been ordered from Russia. The Indigenous Aircraft Carrier (IAC), being built at Cochin Shipyard, Kochi, has been designed with a separate aircraft lift and maintenance facilities for the LCA, in addition to facilities for the MiG-29K. That has linked the development of the Naval LCA with the construction of the IAC, which is expected to join the fleet by 2014.

But the LCA programme faces a bottleneck in choosing a new engine. Two uprated engines --- the General Electric GE-414 and the Eurojet EJ-200 --- are currently being evaluated, but will be supplied only by 2013-14. And only with the new engine will the LCA have the power to get airborne from an aircraft carrier.

PS Subramaniam, the Director of the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), which coordinates the LCA programme, explains. “We will fly the Naval LCA with the current GE-404 engine to test its flight characteristics, and whether its structural strength is sufficient for aircraft carrier operations. After the LCA is fitted with a new, more powerful, engine we will take the next step of operating from an aircraft carrier.”

Meanwhile, a major shore-based test facility is coming up at INS Hansa, in Goa, which replicates an aircraft carrier deck on ground, complete with arrested recovery and a ski jump for take off. This facility, which is expected to be operational by October 2011, will be used for certifying the Naval LCA before actually flying off an aircraft carrier. This will also be used for pilots’ training and for training maintenance crews.

87 comments:

AK said...

I am disappointed with this report. I was expecting more in terms of when this bird will start to fly. HAL has not completed the IAF LCA and now trying to take up another navy order seems like a foolish decision.
1) LCH is overweight by 25%
2) They are struggling to make Hawk
3) Stuck with LCA since 2 decades
4) Su 30MKI production rates have not increased and IAF has to still buy extra MKIs from Russia

It is obvious that HAL's programs are in complete mess. Their project management is pathetic but they do make headlines with such and such new projects everytime and then never deliver. HAL should stick to assembling planes developing planes is not their cup of tea. Now I will see all the HAL/DRDO dumbos start to jump up and down and holler at the top of their voice about this that and everything.

Anonymous said...

"air force pilots are pussycats"

...and HAL management is????

Anonymous said...

150 crors is close to the cost of an SU30MKI. I am glad to note that the IN has the confidence in HAL to build the N-LCA. They would not have invested 900 crores if they were not confident of the outcome. Good luck to both. We have to take baby steps together to walk and then we can run with the rest (of the world).
AK, have you done anything to support the DRDO in any of it's endevours or are you one of those great Indians who are known as arm-chair experts. You need to take a chill pill and be less critical.

Indian! said...

@AK

Are you saying that Hal should be doing things in sequential manner than parallel.......man that would take another 2 decades to fly out LCA's Naval version.....what are u talking about ?

Yes about the production/outcome rate.....I agree that must be doubled or increased

Anonymous said...

Talk to navy fighter pilots about their air force counterparts and you cannot miss the message: air force pilots are pussycats… real fighter jocks fly from ships!


So why do the real fighter jocks learn flying at the pussy cat flight training academy?

AK said...

@Indian
What I am saying is that HAL should prioritise and take projects that they can do rather than taking everything and doing nothing.

Anon@09:06
Can you tell us the reasons for the 4 delayed programs at HAL. Maybe I can support DRDO/HAL after that. I know from your comment that you are a B grade welder at HAL Nasik plant.

Anonymous said...

"man that would take another 2 decades to fly out LCA's Naval version"

If it will take HAL 2 decades to make NLCA from a functional LCA design (MK2?), then imagine how long would it take with all the deficiencies in the MK1 design? I think AK was referring to correctly prioritizing projects. I honestly think slimmed down/redesigned LCA (MK2?) will take at least 10 years to enter production.
Hopefully, even Kaveri will be ready by then.

Rafale said...

Hi Ajai,
What about the LCA Mk 2 update. Please could you tell us if there have been any changes/improvements in the avionics,the radar,the stealth factor & the airframe of the LCA. And what about the weaponisation of Tejas. Please could you through some light on all this. And more photos please.

fighterclass said...

photos ajai, where are the photos ?

nice article overall but this jingo craves for more details.
thanks.

Anonymous said...

What about the Air force LCA??

Indian! said...

@AK

I agree with you that HAL must prioritize it's project and push them on fast track. I also never understand that why they just cannot push the work on fast tracks. But all the way criticizing them is not good as they have done nothing but sitting around and waiting for Russians to do their jobs.....thats not fair, honestly.

We should be proud of what they have done so far BUT there is also a need to improvise the way of working....it can't be same as old govt. babu type manner.


@Anonymous 09:47 (1st one)

What you skipped while commenting my previous comment is "Are you saying that Hal should be doing things in sequential manner than parallel ? " If yes, then "man that would take another 2 decades to fly out LCA's Naval version"

I meant that their parallel approach for the Naval Version along with the IAF version is right and timely (in current context)

vinay said...

HAL is trying to do too many things at a same time ????
I think IN look to indigenous products which is in a way good, but can our people keep the confidence of IN, its a billion dollar question
whats ur views friends ?

Anonymous said...

Please understand that the LCA programme is run by ADA ! HAL only assembles the aircraft as per ADA design. If there are delays, ADA project management is responsible to see that all avionics are available in time. i dont know why PV-5 and LSP-3 are not flying so far? i heard ADE is trying a new DFCC ...and DFCC are not available with HAL? it has become a fashion to blame HAL for everyhing...agreed
public sector bungling is there ...

devsethi said...

It must be evident to the readers of this blog that the Indian Navy is thinking out of the box.The task before the service is to be capable to provide the strategic second strike capability, the defence of the EEZ,the defence of the Island territories sitting astride the energy lifeline of the world on both coasts,the defence of the multibillion dollar oil&gas infrastructure in the Arabian sea / Bay of Bengal and likely deep sea E&P in the Indian Ocean.Finally to provide protection to our vessels/ merchant marine / fishing fleets in the IOR from acts of piracy in accordance with the international laws to which we are a signatory with the UNO.Closer to home Disaster Management/ Aid to Civil power in coastal regions along a coastline of 7500 kms has to be catered for.This requires the Navy to operate efficiently in all three dimensions as the last bastion.The induction of the LCA(N)is vital to the service in MK1 version as a shorebased fighter fitted with existing inventory of BVR/short range missiles to meet the defence of the oil& gas infrastructure on both coasts.The replacement value of this infrastructure in 2009 dollars is around $1 trillion!This is besides the costs of the loss of production/ import of oil&gas for our economy at prices which will result in huge shortages& untold misery.The reports coming in from responsible sources indicate that the gas deposits alone from the offshore Krishna - Godavari belt when fully in production in 2010 can make us a gas surplus economy.This strategic economic asset deserves dedicated 3D cover 24x7 as UK does for their North Sea assets.This implies a dedicated fighter squadron with AEW&C aircraft in naval bases such as Vishakhapatnam.That Vizag is also the home of the strategic submarine force& infrastructure is enough reason for dedicated air power of the LCA(N)variety. This aicraft must be inducted into the Navy rapidly in its Mk1 version.

Karupaswami said...

The HAL Plant does not look like a professional hangar, Even the neighborhood car garage looks better.

What does India lack? Can we not pump in a few more crores for improving the infrastructure that may help pay off in the longer run in terms of better quality products. Look at the stool, cheap computer desk, Shabby painting & ugly equipments and unorganized cables running all over. Why not the govt agency take up the design work and get the LCA manufactured in some professional private sector shop floor like that of L&T's.

For some reason I have a feeling that, If the planes are manufactured in a Public Sector Company's shop floor, It will have consequences on the quality of the LCA & the safety of our pilots.

Our people are among the best in the world, It is just that they need to be provided with better work environment, given access to the latest technology/Gadgets and resources void of any bureaucracy so that they can focus their energies on design & development.

These people in the photograph definitely deserve better facilities. If we give them an infrastructure like that of Boeing these folks will not only prove themselves as world class Innovators but will also deliver LCA, MCA, HCA and whatever dam thing you want in less 1 yr.

Can we not do something about it, This primitive looking HAL facility is not even fit for manufacturing a bicycle or an auto, may be we can use it for repairing them and BUILD A NEW MODERN FACILITY FOR LCA under an independent management and make it as publicly listed company with the shares issues to the common public and not to any single private investor or institutional investors. This will bring in accountability and set goals & deadlines for the organization as a whole.

Pratik Das said...

Thank you Ajai ji for posting the photograph of the PV-5.

Vincent said...

Ajai Ji, where the hell is my previous post???

Sarang said...

yeh dil mange more

Anonymous said...

Any Idea when the LSP-3 & PV-5 will fly?

New Pictures???

Venu said...

@Karupaswami

You are wrong. You saw the shaddy stool, shabby paintings etc, but you failed to see, lizard on the All Glass Cockpits canopy.

Now don't ask me what is it doing there? May be HAL chaps are using it to clean the canopy glass.

Tell me which other Aircraft manufacturer in the world is sophisticated or intelligent enough to use a lizard to clean the canopy?

I read that a squirrel has helped Lord Sri Rama in the daunting construction of a Lanka varadhi. This lizard is doing no mean task either. What say?

@Pratik,

isn't this an old photograph which Ajai has posted earlier or it is a latest one? I dont think this is the latest one because last time I have seen PV5' pic. it is completely assembled and is undergoing ground tests.

Venu said...

@Vincent ji,

Probably crow might have taken it away. Ask the crow.

Venu said...

Looking at the ppl working on PV5, they don't look professional. Are they just keepers who posed for the pic or are they really engineers working on it?

Did the austerity drive of our 'Holy Cows' struck them as well?

Anonymous said...

Sorry for the OT but can't resist asking. I read that French Mistral, from laying to launching and commissioning took only 2 years (2002 - 2005). When they are able to build such a large ship in such short time, how come our ship yards take 9 years to complete shivalik class?

Anonymous said...

rather pointless report ajai. looks like the ADA guys have nothing more to tell you since you go there WAY too often :D Just kidding mate, but honestly speaking, you have told us nothing in this report that was not known previously. hope your next report will be better. please don't give us stupid primers on deck landing technology. your audience is quite aquainted with that!

Broadsword said...

I'm amazed at the ignorance of posters on this blog.

firstly, Mr Anonymous 12:55, you knew, did you, that the Indian Navy had ordered six LCAs for Rs 900 crores? Wow... you were keeping it a secret, were you?

Just to let you know... I don't write for the visitors to this blog. Try to bear the heartbreak but you are not my audience. I write for the Business Standard and you get the articles as freebies. If you're so wonderfully aeronautical that newspaper articles seem too elementary for you, bye-bye!

As for gyanis like AK, who shed wisdom and light on this blog every morning and evening... it would be really cool if you understood that HAL is not developing either the LCA or the Naval LCA. It is an organisation called ADA. Google it, AK-ji. Don't make a complete ass of yourself here!

Rafale, surely you know that the LCA Mk II incorporates a new engine, which is still to be selected? You want them to start re-engineering the aircraft for a new engine without knowing which new engine they are re-engineering it for??

Venu, Karupaswami, apologies on behalf of HAL for the people working on PV-5 who "don't look professional" enough for you. Why don't you send us a photo of yourself and we'll photoshop a LCA alongside. Everyone will be just wowed.

Vincent-ji, this blog is not about your posts! It must be lovely to be so in love with yourself...

fighterclass said...

ajai, so sad that you choose to respond only to the obnoxious ones.

I'll try it next time. returning to my question, did you get any photos ? can we expect anything more ?

Ron said...

wow..nice to see some news...hope it flies soon..

Anonymous said...

Ajai

Ignore the idiots, especially the Pakis masquerading under Indian names and trying to come up with idiotic responses..thanks for the pics btw, I have seen and worked in 3 aerospace plants worldwide- airframers, and the HAL assembly stage looks the same as any of the others, as clean, as modern and seems reasonably well organized..

Funny though they're wearing a formal uniform and not work overalls..but I guess different practises...i preferred overalls coz i could get them as dirty as i wanted without worry...

Anonymous said...

Venu/Karupaswamy are one and the same, a Paki called Buraidiah, a Paki teenager from Jeddah who has no job in life and trolls on Indian blogs. Lowlife also justified Islamic terrorism on Aroors blog.

Pratik Das said...

Venu, the photos on Bharat Rakshak are dated November 2008 and the plane is in a more complete form. But I sincerely doubt the plane has been sitting on the tarmac doing nothing for almost a year. They must still be working on the the systems - which could make Ajai's photo more recent. Either way, new or old, its one I haven't seen before so it was a sight for eyes very sore for the LCA.

Indian! said...

Can anyone please remove that lizard from the photo.......it is so bugging me right now

Anonymous said...

Ajai sir, what a whacking reply to those obnoxious posts. Thank you.

pratik das! yes you are right . PV5
has even completed engine ground runs and i think taxi trials also. since its a twin seater and the first timr its being built,there could be some hiccup..

Anonymous said...

Ajai,
Don't be arrogant.If we are not your audience why the hell do you keep posting?

We know you because of this blog and not because you write for Business Standard.You are getting cheap publicity ...don't you.Had it not been your blog..nobody gives a $hit about Business below Standard.If you don't care about us..i sincerely beg you to stop blogging.

Falcon said...

Anon @ 15:34

I don't think Ajai is arrogant but you are.

He is doing us a favor posting his articles on his blog. If you don't want it then don't read it but you cannot ask him not to post, This is his blog but not yours.

Anonymous said...

The pilot in LCA has 2 enemies, Pokris in the air and LIZARD in the Cockpit. Real fighters...hehe.

Vincent said...

10 unpalatable truths that Indians should accept


1. I like India, I really do. But as an outsider, it is easier for me from a distance to see the outrageous behavior of the Indian Ministry of Defence and the military arms stretching the Indian taxpaper and supporter like you over a barrel and violating you for what you're worth.

2. Crap is crap is crap, whether it is made in India or not. Why the need for 1100 similar test flights of LCA just to stage a show that all is well and to ensure funding continues for it? After 27 years, the engine is not ready, the radar is non-existent and we only have a Mirage 2000 derivative air frame based on the flawed doctrine of point air defence and short legs. All countries have pulled the plug on bad R&D before, shit does not taste better if processed in Indian belly.

3. Holding people to accountability esp civil servants without fainting at the sight of their civil or military rank, improves results. These people are working for you, not the other way round. In a democracy you have the right to both defer to their expertise and training in military matters while holding people in charge accountable for their lack of management skills and results. The Indian miltiary should not be a superior caste that is unquestionable.

4. The biggest problem of Indian military manfacturing is the lack of deep industrial base needed for R&D as well. To set this up however requires not accepting or simply assembling any Frankenstein plane with airframe Russian, avionics Israeli, weapons South African etc but accepting a structured, expert-driven, visionary and sometimes painful step to drawing in Indian resources, scientists, makers and foreign expertise in partnership to build long term capabilities and local defence industries of note. It means accepting you have been wrong and doing things all over.


5. This is not a game, defence, failure has severe consequences for India. While defence spending slows down growth, a loss of a war can destroy growth for decades even hundreds of years. Why is it that 50% of Indian army officers were found so obese as not able to lead their units when Kargil erupted? They are arrogant enough to parade around in peace time in uniform to get deference from Indian civilians, but come to the crunch and they're chodes.


5 more to come. The revolution for more professionalism and transparency in Indian defence has started, from Ajai's blog and Livefist. Enough! cry the people, you are not better than us and you should perform or there are younger officers who can.

Anonymous said...

The navy is doing a very good job.But how come the LCA came to 150 crores per aircraft?This high cost will defeat one of the purposes of indigenisation.

Vincent said...

6. Beware of people who link being thought independent with being traitorous. This is completely against the idea of innovation. And is the reason for separation of church and state. Imagine for example if india had been totally oblivious of Western fighter technology and had been taught by Soviet VVAS. If some young Indian scientist, call him Thambibhoy, suggested that it was better to concentrate more on developing precision weapons and use thereof by diverting funds to it from building air frames, what would be the response of obese generals who value power only through squadron strength and want to protect their turf? Thambibhoy would soon be working in the US, his hairy Indian heart broken.

7. Beware of people who wrap themselves in the flag without achievement. The greatest patriots are those who scarcely mention their contribution to the cause celebre of India, such as PM Singh ('the man of steel, the Turbanator'). It is similar to the race card used to obliterate any dissent for fear of being marked as an outsider and is a weapon of the truly unprincipled and exploitative. Witness the craziness of the Cultural Revolution.

8. India is far too insular today to be a global power. Why do you think the US still commands leadership position despite the weakening dollar and the Iraq war, if not for the fact that it has consistently banked goodwill by undertaking onerous tasks and helping other countries? George Bush donated more money to Africa than any previous US president, no matter how the Democrats want to demonize him. When Indonesia had an earthquake, the first choppers on the scene were from the US 7th fleet. Where is the Indian soft power? You have to do it whether you feel like it or not, or whether you think you can use it for social programs in your own country. Soft power equals engagement.

9. Growing as a world power necessitates change. Change is often fearful and troublesome, but it is absolutely necessary. I can see in the future your children ever wondering why you are building an advanced A-7 derivative in the LCA and wasting opportunity to take tech leaps. Change means admitting you are wrong and taking your lumps when it is necessary, and being humble to learn from the best. America spends more money than the next 10 countries combined and is offering you strategic engagement across the board. The reason why you're not acting in time is because change is poison to an Indian babu whose position is solidified by his 'experience' and age. It also means listening to young people like me, who in the first world already makes more money in 1 year (million USD) than a lot of you will make in your life times.

10. There is nothing really very appealing about traditional Indian society. When Alexander rampaged into the Hindu subcontinent, he was told by Persian guides that the tanned people here did not have good buildings or much culture. The last time I was in Delhi earlier this year, I was disappointed to see that the city is as dirty, run down and uninfrastructured as ever. There is nothing shameful about being desi or Western - these are the cultures that have touched heights the Indians have not in many ways. If the Western countries can absorb Hindu vassasani meditation or gurus for example, India should be willing to learn comprehensive Western standards for urban planning, cultural influence and military technology.


India is at the crossroads. Whether you are a has-been without ever being, or turn your country around, depends on how arrogant you are.

Anonymous said...

lizards are deliberately introduced to eat away any insects that may enter pitot and other airdata sensors! vincent! i understood the thambhibhoy ,whome you are refering. it seems you know a lot.even though you claim to be a foreigner!

Rahul Singh said...

Ajai Sir. Thank you for posting this information. It's a good news but expecting update on the status of IAF LCA, particularly PV-5 and LSP-3. Hope you are comming up on them too. Thanks again.

Venu said...

@ Anon 14:20

Yaar, I would rather die than being a Pakisthani.

I am just another Vexed Indian, who for years has been looking for the LCA, Arjun etc etc to be operational. Every single day, I browse around the internet, see if any new pics of LCA has been posted, any latest news about it being updated. I am 16 when I first came to know about the LCA, I am not 23 and still this is not ready. Frustration. It was about the same age when I heard about the Arjun. I still remember watching the whole RD parade on TV just to have a glance of Arjun. And still Arjun is not completely ready and is rejected by user. Again frustration. And when I try to convey it, I am labelled as a porkisthani. Well done India.

Anonymous said...

@Anon 16:29

U moron,what great favour is he doing???Telling the same thing again and again.It's ok to me but why does he keep reminding us again n again n again that he is doing a great favour to us.We don't need this favour.Let me write for some shitty newspaper.

No seriously ajai,we are not stray dogs roaming for food.DECENCY is what that makes u human being.But alas....u seem to sort of that.Tell me is it ur family problem,ur kid not listening to u anymore or old age.

If u think u are doing a favour,dont post on this blog anymore.believe me this my last post on ur blog since now i sincerely feel that there is no difference b/n ur blog or any porki def website.Filled with arrogant and dumb persons.

Vincent said...

The revolution has begun. The youth in India are revolting against the arrogance, ineptness, corruption and narrow-minded dismissive attitude of a previous generation, as seen clearly in the comments of this blog. The youth understand that it is not a matter of left or right, but a fight for accountability, respect for new ideas, modernity, improvement and war on corruption.

Down with babus! In this blog and Livefist, we have spoken, "Enough!"

27 years for a fighter jet, go stick it up your middle aged butt!

Simranjit Singh said...

Hi Vincent

With all due respect, Why do you always say LCA has israeli avionics blah blah...It has been mentioned numerous times that avoinics for LCA, landing gear etc have been developed indigenously. Not everything can pe produced indegenously unless you are Americans or russians. So why sing the same song again & again...

I completely agree with you on some things like delays, beurocracy problems, but from your posts it seems like you are always interested in finding negative points. Yes there have been delays, we all are frustrated by it. But as you have mentioned that you don't live in this country, so you are unaware of the ground realities. I don't know whether you are NRI who suddenly seems to identify himself as european or you really are european but your knowledge about India's history needs to be polished. Remember we have been independent for only 62 years & even in those years we have been governed by lunatics except for a few. Don't compare India with US or UK. Even their asses got whipped while developing indigenous products. Once LCA is pressed into service I am sure next projects will be done smoothly. Everybody suffers for the first time.

Tell me Do you relly think that scientists do this intentionally, that they want their projects to get delayed so that every tom, dick & harry who don't even know even M of missile can come & humiliate them ? I think that their only fault was that they were being too optimistic in dcelaring that LCA, Kaveri etc will be developed in 10 years.

So don't lecture us on what to think, how to think, what to do. Reading blogs, watching all this on TV may make you some kind of genius amongst your friends but it won't take away the fact that you are no different from all those people who think they know everything but end up making fool of themselves.

And please don't even try to portray US as some avatar of Jesus. We all know what US has done in the past & what it currently is doing.
Besides that can u please tell us the choppers that destroy Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam were from which fleet ?? May be they were from Iam-the-god-Iam-protecting-the-world fleet.

And please don't enlighten us with your vulgar display of wealth. We don't give a damn about your earnings. May be that's very hard for you arrogant europeans or americans or where ever you are from to understand.

Vincent said...

woah, there really is a facking lizard on the plane canopy. way to go, babus, continue being workshy squanderers.

Venu said...

Silver lining is that, the intakes are incorporated with axillary air vents no the side just as in Jaguars. I am worried if they will take another year to do that.

Indian! said...

@Ajai Sir
"I don't write for the visitors to this blog. Try to bear the heartbreak but you are not my audience. I write for the Business Standard and you get the articles as freebies."

I have no doubt that you are a great writer and so far I have read a lot of your articles and still a regular visitor.

But the comment you said above is a bit Rude as you cannot deny that you have a public blog and public blog will have public visitors and public as a visitor do have there views(no matter good or bad) and as you allow them they do post them as comments so it is in your hands whether you want to hear them or not. No matter how ignorant and annoying people become while commenting you just can't be rude with all of them. The point that hurts me is that you said you don't write for the visitors to this blog and they are not your audience then what's the point in writing here and opening a public blog. If you don't want visitors then just make it a private Blog....Blogspot does provide this facility. And if you still wanted to run a public website then you do wanted to let the visitors read the articles and if visitors views are not important that you may know that you can also close the comments on the articles.

I can understand your situation you are a Reporter/Writer and now you are running a Blog (which is good and every reporter have to try hard to get to the public) but when you run a Blog or website you do got visitors and when you interact with them you are in a kind of Customer Relationship (no matter whether they are buying anything from you or not) and that is a bit hard to handle. As a guy related to web services I know how hard it is to digest even the unwelcome comments.

Either you said was wrong or I understood it wrong or you are following Double Standards.

Don't take any of my words as harsh as none of them was rude. If it did hurt you then I am Sorry for that.


@TO ALL THE OTHER GUYS
Don't pay attention to Chinese rat named Vin-Chin aka Vincent.

He is only provoking you guys on every topic and messing up the blog and you guys get provoked and arguing with him.

Just ignore this rat and he will ran away.

Arun rajkumar.l said...

Sad indeed by your comment sir

Karupaswamy said...

I am not sure why people in this blog get annoyed if someone points about bureaucracy and inefficiencies in public sector companies. It is a democratic country and everyone has a right to express their feeling about how their tax money is spent. I dont want even a single Re of my tax money to be wasted.

Accountability should be brought into HAL, DRDO & ADA. There should not be any job security to these govt employees, If they are inefficient or incompetent they should be fired next moment. Time sheets should be brought in to give account of the time spent by designers. There should be monthly, quarterly and annual goals/milestones set for each of them and if any of the employees fail to meet them, they should be shown the door. A flexible hire and fire policy should be adopted in all public sector companies. Trade Unions should be abolished to enforce productivity.

Had we done this in HAL 10 yrs back, we would have been flying an LCA superior to F22.

Sarang said...

does anyone have information on whether the deal with EADS for 20 Million to help get the IOC for LCA was inked?

Broadsword said...

I'm really amused by the nitwits' responses, e.g.:-

@Anon 16:29
U moron,what great favour is he doing???Telling the same thing again and again.It's ok to me but why does he keep reminding us again n again n again that he is doing a great favour to us.We don't need this favour.Let me write for some shitty newspaper.
who imagine that I'm benefiting from the "free publicity"
-----------

Anonymous, you're just hilarious. I was having such a fun time thinking about which newspaper would publish you... but now I guess I'll have to live without you. We're never seeing you again on Broadsword, right? Right??
---------
Indian! said...
@Ajai Sir
when you run a Blog or website you do got visitors and when you interact with them you are in a kind of Customer Relationship (no matter whether they are buying anything from you or not) and that is a bit hard to handle. As a guy related to web services I know how hard it is to digest even the unwelcome comments.
------------------
Indian, I don't delete from my blog even the ill-informed rubbish written by idiots who have never been near a production line or an R&D facility, but think they are technological and strategic whizz-kids.

I swallow all that they write. So, honey, let them get used to swallowing my responses to their crap.

And as for Customer Relationship... don't make me laugh! The customers are welcome to walk out of my shop any time they write. But as you can see with people like AK and Vincent, they won't. They get their two minutes of fame by posting on blogs like mine.

Did you see Vincent bleat when I deleted a thread on which he had posted. He knows that on his own, nobody would waste a moment on them.

So people like him keep criticising... but they keep coming back for more.

Vince, baby, go on posting. There's occasional sense in what you write. My only complaint is that it's hard to sift the 10 paise of sense from the 90 paise of rubbish. But as you go along I'm hopeful that your batting average will improve.

Anonymous said...

Vince, you MoFo Singaporean, you think i can't trace your ip?

Kartik said...

Ajaiji,
Thanks for the information on the Navy supporting the N-LCA by providing funds and placing orders. But, could you provide us with more details ? While I understand that you write articles for Business Standard, your articles provide more information than any other place- especially the series of articles you wrote on the LCA, alongwith great pics.

Do you know what is the current state of the N-LCA prototype ? have they started building it as yet or not ?

However, what is bugging me and most LCA program followers the most is the total lack of news emanating from ADA and HAL regarding what is delaying the LSP-3 and PV-5. Could you try your contacts to get information on this ?

Anonymous said...

Vincent was the union of a coupling of a crack whore and a pimp..the pimp ran away, leaving Vincent to be sired by the crack whore all by herself..the result is what we all see here on this blog. have pity on him- a bastard child who is looking for a father figure to "drill" some respect and show him some man-love is all Vincent wants..

Indian! said...

@Ajay Sir

Thanks for answer to my comment wisely.

As now I guess that your previous comments were only to those rats......but i still suggest you not to refer all the visitors in context of few jerks.

Keep up the good writing.

Arun rajkumar.l said...

Thanks sir....expecting more and more analysis from you sir .Which defense enthusiasts like us are starving for .

Anonymous said...

The IN is very ACTIVE and creative getting indigenous products. They don’t sit back and twiddle their thumbs and criticize the other guy for not doing well. Good job IN.

Regarding a lot of HAL products not getting completed. It is very true that indigenous scientific organizations have made many errors and not completed many products. This is very natural for companies with little experience. Also, much of the products HAL is building has been started from scratch and they have had little support from sources outside the immediate organization.

So, what is the solution to indigenous organizations problems? 1) Short term, buy foreign products or do JV to make up for IO shortfall. 2) Long term, keep investing in R&D, learn from mistakes (keep improving), get private firms participation, INVEST IN EDUCATION, ETC..

Regarding India’s oil discovery, I think people should keep their mouths shut. I heard in a recent TV report that Pakistan wants to hand over Bin Laden; in return, they would like aid from a foreign nation to acquire Kashmir. So, devsethi @ 11:30 don’t give nations more incentive to attack India.

Prasun K Sengupta said...

To BROADSWORD: “if the tail hook misses all three arrestor cables, the fighter must have the power and speed to get airborne again before the end of the flight deck.”—I take it that you’re referring to the technique known as ‘Bolter”? And how exactly will the 'Bolter' technique be effected by the NLCA on a STOBAR carrier (either the IAC or INS Vikramaditya)? Via the angled flight deck (which hosts the three arrestor cables)?
“Business Standard has learnt that the navy has okayed the placement of an order for six Naval LCAs.”—Would these NLCAs be powered by GE-built F404-GE-IN20 turbofans?
“If it takes a Top Gun pilot to pull off such landings,...” Top Gun pilot? What exactly is meant by this description of a naval aviator? Does it mean that all Indian Navy pilots type-rated on the MiG-29K/MiG-29KUB or NLCA will have to first become graduates of the Top Gun School at NAS Miramar?
“That investment in the Tejas programme is rooted in the navy’s plan to operate both light and medium fighters off its aircraft carriers.”—Exactly what criteria is being used to describe ‘light’ and ‘medium’? The aircraft’s MTOW or the weapons payload of the concerned aircraft? What is it exactly that the ‘medium’ MiG-29K can do which the ‘light’ NLCA will not be able to?
“Meanwhile, a major shore-based test facility is coming up at INS Hansa, in Goa, which replicates an aircraft carrier deck on ground, complete with arrested recovery and a ski jump for take off.”—Will this projected facility be type-specific to the NLCA or will it also be used by the MiG-29K/MiG-29KUB?
Which OEM will be roped in by ADA as consultant for designing the NLCA’s beefed-up landing gear, considering that EADS has no prior experience in developing landing gear for carrier-based combat aircraft?
Has the Navy selected the OEM for supplying the NLCA’s ejection seats? Will the OEM be Martin Baker, or will it be Zvezda of Russia, which will be supplying the ejection setas for the IAF-specific Tejas LCAs?
Lastly, has the Navy asked ADA to custom-design an engineering simulator or tactical simulator for the NLCA, just as ADA was required to do so in case of the IAF-specific Tejas Mk1 LCA?

Anonymous said...

Prasun, one time Ajai's friend, seems to have lost it.

Prasun K Sengupta said...

^^^^
Dream on....dream away

openlight said...

Thanks for the update on LCA naval version.

Its site like yours and livefist and others that i get updated on the status and with this news feels elated and motivated for the toil persons are taking and I should also take for nation building and not harp shit.

Ramu said...

Sir, thanks for posting this good article. when was this signed?

Ajai said...

Prasun,

“if the tail hook misses all three arrestor cables, the fighter must have the power and speed to get airborne again before the end of the flight deck.”—I take it that you’re referring to the technique known as ‘Bolter”? And how exactly will the 'Bolter' technique be effected by the NLCA on a STOBAR carrier (either the IAC or INS Vikramaditya)? Via the angled flight deck (which hosts the three arrestor cables)?

Yup, Bolter. That technique only comes into play in an arrested landing. What is your question?
---------

“Business Standard has learnt that the navy has okayed the placement of an order for six Naval LCAs.”—Would these NLCAs be powered by GE-built F404-GE-IN20 turbofans?

Yes sir. The article mentions that the next engine would only come in 3-4 years.
-------------

“If it takes a Top Gun pilot to pull off such landings,...” Top Gun pilot? What exactly is meant by this description of a naval aviator? Does it mean that all Indian Navy pilots type-rated on the MiG-29K/MiG-29KUB or NLCA will have to first become graduates of the Top Gun School at NAS Miramar?

No, I use the phrase Top Gun the way I would use Hot Rod or Cool Dude.
---------------

“That investment in the Tejas programme is rooted in the navy’s plan to operate both light and medium fighters off its aircraft carriers.”—Exactly what criteria is being used to describe ‘light’ and ‘medium’? The aircraft’s MTOW or the weapons payload of the concerned aircraft? What is it exactly that the ‘medium’ MiG-29K can do which the ‘light’ NLCA will not be able to?

MTOW. The MiG-29K will do a lot more in terms of performance and payload than the NLCA.
--------------

“Meanwhile, a major shore-based test facility is coming up at INS Hansa, in Goa, which replicates an aircraft carrier deck on ground, complete with arrested recovery and a ski jump for take off.”—Will this projected facility be type-specific to the NLCA or will it also be used by the MiG-29K/MiG-29KUB?

The shore-based facility duplicates the carrier, not the aircraft! You can fly both aircraft from it.
--------------

Which OEM will be roped in by ADA as consultant for designing the NLCA’s beefed-up landing gear, considering that EADS has no prior experience in developing landing gear for carrier-based combat aircraft?

Lockheed Martin, probably. Still under process.
-------------

Has the Navy selected the OEM for supplying the NLCA’s ejection seats? Will the OEM be Martin Baker, or will it be Zvezda of Russia, which will be supplying the ejection setas for the IAF-specific Tejas LCAs?

No idea.
----------------

Lastly, has the Navy asked ADA to custom-design an engineering simulator or tactical simulator for the NLCA, just as ADA was required to do so in case of the IAF-specific Tejas Mk1 LCA?

Yes.

Whew!

Vincent said...

Navalizing the LCA is like your mother suddenly wearing thick makeup and short dress to go out on Saturday night.

Not cool.

Vincent said...

>>Vincent was the union of a coupling of a crack whore and a pimp..the pimp ran away, leaving Vincent to be sired by the crack whore all by herself..the result is what we all see here on this blog. have pity on him- a bastard child who is looking for a father figure to "drill" some respect and show him some man-love is all Vincent wants..


I think you're right.

Anonymous said...

my dear karupaswamy! ppl who joined HAL in late seventies,most of them were from IITs.In those days a selected few only used to go abroad. ppl who joined HAl in the eighties and ninties could have gone to the US of A insearch of few dollars and become a sold out NRI...but most of them have stuck to their job...some out of passion ,some out of necessity and ofcourse some out of inefficiency...The problem is not with ppl... The unions,the reseravetions and the rotten system.. if you have some concrete plan to revitalize DRDO,HAL etc..pls write to the RM... There is no point in crying here!

Adivasi said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Adivasi said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Adivasi said...

Regarding dress they are wearing, it looks like BEL uniforms and might they are working something related to electronics.I'm sure it is uniform or else why should all wear same kind of dress.

I just googled for PV5 model shown in pic and found the following link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQVB9EI9Z9E
Might be PV5 is already complete

Arun rajkumar.l said...

For those who don't like the guys in the pic ,This isn't any hollywood movie ,where the scientists looks well suited and glamorous ...so pls bare it they are Indians working in an Indian facility.What are you expecting dont know ,Hmmm .

Anonymous said...

A really naive question but since Israelis also worked on Lavi before they shelved why don't we take their consultation on control laws of LCA etc instead of asking Boeing or Europeans

Anonymous said...

Vincent, what about your "navelized" ;) mother..she's a whore thats been around the block for decades and still struts her sorry ass around to find someone to poke it for a few pennies.

Prasun K Sengupta said...

To Broadsword: The question was asked earlier and is being repeated: How exactly will the 'Bolter' technique be effected by the NLCA on a STOBAR carrier (either the IAC or INS Vikramaditya)? Via the angled flight deck (which hosts the three arrestor cables)? I ask this question because in all official computer-aided design photos of INS Vikramaditya released thus far by SEVMASH, the takeoff length of a MiG-29K/KUB or NLCA using the ski-ramp is shown as being a lot more than the takeoff length available in the angled deck for a bolter manoeuvre to be performed.
With regard to your statement "The MiG-29K will do a lot more in terms of performance and payload than the NLCA", this I'm afraid requires further clarification or explaining. After all, if the Tejas Mk2 with uprated powerplant, larger wings and a slightly lengthened nose-section is to become the definitive production-standard NLCA then, this variant of the NLCA will in effect become a veritable M-MRCA and will be able to do just about anything the MiG-29Ks are able to do now. In fact, the NLCA will be superior to the MiG-29K in many respects, especially if equipped with the projected twin fuselage-mounted conformal fuel tanks (similar to what is being proposed for the F-16IN, Gripen IN, Rafale and Eurofighter EF-2000). In addition, at a time when the US Navy, French Navy, the Royal Navy and the Russian Navy have all settled down for just one aircraft-type (like the Super Hornet, Rafale, F-35 JSF and the Su-33) to grace their flight-decks, the Indian Navy's wisdom of hosting two distinct types of M-MRCAs on board its aircraft carriers can only be described as being highly questionable (given the extremely limited space available with the IN carriers' hangar bay to accommodate the infrastructure for two separate product support workshops).
By the way, the NLCAs will all have Martin Baker-built ejection seats. The matter was sorted out as far back as the mid-1990s, I'm told. And as fr the landing gear for NLCA, talks are being held with both Northrop Grumman and Lockheed Martin, as the former has more experience than the latter in this area. In fact, Northrop Grumman always followed a cardinal rule when designing carrier-based fixed-wing aircraft: it always commenced designing such aircraft by first designing and developing the landing gear, and then proceeding to design the rest of the aircraft. Will, therefore, ADA heed such time-tested formula, or will it instead choose to do something different? Only time will tell. Cheers!

Tejaswy said...

Ignoring all the trolls here..AKA Vincent I'd like to ask a question to Ajai.

Rs 150 Crore per LCA?
Isn't that a bit too steep?

Is there a catch included ?

Anonymous said...

"I'm told. And as fr the landing gear for NLCA, talks are being held with both Northrop Grumman and Lockheed Martin, as the former has more experience than the latter in this area. In fact, Northrop Grumman always followed a cardinal rule when designing carrier-based fixed-wing aircraft: it always commenced designing such aircraft by first designing and developing the landing gear, and then proceeding to design the rest of the aircraft"

Prasun. You should actually stick to writing fiction. All the above lines are just so much gas!. Repeat this . Northrop AND LOCKHEED historically had ZERO experience in carrier borne platforms. The only guys who were carrier experts are the former Grumman corp and McDonell Douglas. Case in point the F-18. The F-18 as the YF-17 in the light fighter competition (which it lost to the F16) was a Northrop design. However, since Northrop did NOT have experience with Naval undercarriage, the design was handed over to McDonnel Douglas which became F18. So much for your gas on "Northrop designing undercarriage first before building a plane" . Like I said, you should stick to fiction writing.

Yeah, before you shoot your mouth off on Northrop acquiring Grumman, let us get this clear. Northrop Grumman has EXITED the airframe business basically and the last new airframe it has built (of any kind) is the B2. Kind of puts a spoke in "Northrop designs undercarriage ............" right ?

As for Lockheed, they historically NEVER were a player in the carrier based fighter business. Their experience too is basically zilch. In fact, the F35C will probably be the first carrier borne fighter ever.

Talking to Lockheed indeed . The guys who they should be talking to are actually Boeing (which bought out McDonell) and Northrop-Grumman (the Grumman part really), who probably have all the experience in carrier landing gears etc.

And before you shoot off again on Lockheed and the carrier version of F-35, remember, both Northrop-Grumman and BAE , are full partners with approx 25% work share in the F35 program including key fuselage and structural components and both firms have strong carrier experience which they bring to the table.

So if you want consulting help with Navalizing the LCA, the right guys to talk to would be Boeing IDS (the former McDonnel), Northrop Grumman (the former Long Island based Grumman really), BAE systems and Dassault (Super Etendard, Rafale etc).

Rafale said...

Hi Ajai
"Rafale, surely you know that the LCA Mk II incorporates a new engine, which is still to be selected? You want them to start re-engineering the aircraft for a new engine without knowing which new engine they are re-engineering it for??" I meant to ask what progress they have made.Surely they are not going to wait until the engine is selected to start doing something. & my request for updates on the avionics & weaponisation of the LCA was for the current version.

Ajai said...

Hi Prasun,

Your last post included this question: “Has the Navy selected the OEM for supplying the NLCA’s ejection seats? Will the OEM be Martin Baker, or will it be Zvezda of Russia, which will be supplying the ejection seats for the IAF-specific Tejas LCAs?”

In this post you write: “By the way, the NLCAs will all have Martin Baker-built ejection seats. The matter was sorted out as far back as the mid-1990s, I'm told.”

I’m a bit mystified!! If you knew the answer, why did you ask me which seat had been selected?

-----------------------------

To Broadsword: The question was asked earlier and is being repeated: How exactly will the 'Bolter' technique be effected by the NLCA on a STOBAR carrier (either the IAC or INS Vikramaditya)? Via the angled flight deck (which hosts the three arrestor cables)? I ask this question because in all official computer-aided design photos of INS Vikramaditya released thus far by SEVMASH, the takeoff length of a MiG-29K/KUB or NLCA using the ski-ramp is shown as being a lot more than the takeoff length available in the angled deck for a bolter manoeuvre to be performed.

Why would a “bolter” require a ski ramp (or, for that matter, a catapult) to get airborne? It is already rolling at over 200 kmph (and is at full throttle) when the decision to abort the landing is taken. How much runway length do you imagine it needs for getting airborne?

----------------------

“With regard to your statement "The MiG-29K will do a lot more in terms of performance and payload than the NLCA", this I'm afraid requires further clarification or explaining. After all, if the Tejas Mk2 with uprated powerplant, larger wings and a slightly lengthened nose-section is to become the definitive production-standard NLCA then, this variant of the NLCA will in effect become a veritable M-MRCA and will be able to do just about anything the MiG-29Ks are able to do now. In fact, the NLCA will be superior to the MiG-29K in many respects, especially if equipped with the projected twin fuselage-mounted conformal fuel tanks (similar to what is being proposed for the F-16IN, Gripen IN, Rafale and Eurofighter EF-2000).”

Taking forward your own logic, why is the IAF buying an MMRCA then? Clearly they believe that the LCA will always be a light fighter. I’m not sure it is wise to be as confident as you that the LCA Mk II will do anything the MiG-29K can do.

-------------------------

In addition, at a time when the US Navy, French Navy, the Royal Navy and the Russian Navy have all settled down for just one aircraft-type (like the Super Hornet, Rafale, F-35 JSF and the Su-33) to grace their flight-decks, the Indian Navy's wisdom of hosting two distinct types of M-MRCAs on board its aircraft carriers can only be described as being highly questionable (given the extremely limited space available with the IN carriers' hangar bay to accommodate the infrastructure for two separate product support workshops).

I think the fact that they’ve completed designs for the IAC and found that they have adequate space for two separate fighters’ support infrastructure (as my article says, they’ve even got two separate aircraft lifts for them) makes your point a bit academic.

---------------------------

“And as fr the landing gear for NLCA, talks are being held with both Northrop Grumman and Lockheed Martin, as the former has more experience than the latter in this area.”

I don’t know where you’re getting this from, Prasun. The matter is well beyond “talks being held with…” Three companies have already submitted bids and Northrop Grumman is not one of them.

Regards,

ajai

vishnu said...

Ajai sir,

Can you please please give some updates wrt the development of the Indian-Russian 5th gen Plane!!

Very curious to know..has there been any solid progress ??

Anonymous said...

Yo Anon@05:48, for all your needless and idiotic rambling about "Prasun's gassings", your last para repeats the same conclusions as those voiced by Prasun. As for Northrop Grumman exiting the airframe business, it looks like you're the one gassing around and making fictitious claims, for Northrop Grumman is still the major sub-contractor (for fabricating airframes for both civil and military aircraft) to both Boeing IDS and Lockheed Martin. Furthermore, new-build E-2D Hawkeye 2000s are also being rolled out. Moral of this story, therefore, is: when pointing a finger at others in total idiotic ignorance, there are four more pointing back at you. So shut your trap!!!

Prasun K Sengupta said...

To Broadsword: Hi Ajai! While the 'issue' of going for Martin Maker-built ejection seats was settled in the mid-1990s, contract signature for placing firm orders had not taken place then. What I meant to ask you was if contract signature had taken place in the recent past.
As for the 'bolter' from the angled deck, the reqd runway length depends on the configuration of the aircraft, i.e. if it has to do a bolter after it has already come in to land in clean configuration (without carrying its weapons payloads and retaining only 15% fuel reserve), or whether it is still carrying its offensive payload when reqd to do the bolter. If the latter is the case it would require at least a deck length of no less than 400 metres (as the ski ramp isn't available in the angled flight deck to produce the reqd lift).
With regard to taking forward my own logic, why is the IAF buying an MMRCA then? A very good point indeed, as no one from IAF HQ has as yet been able to give convincing answers to this question. If you were to recall, it all started with the term 'MRCA' being coined by the IAF itself in 2002, but by early 2007 the MRCA had morphed into the M-MRCA to accommodate the Rafale, EF-2000, MiG-35 and Super Hornet. Secondly, IAF HQ has officially and repeatedly stated that the M-MRCA was required not so much to acquire new capabilities, but rather to arrest the steady and alarming depreciation of the IAF's fleet inventory of combat aircraft. If that is the case, then what exactly is it that a Gripen IN or F-16IN or Rafale or EF-2000 will be able to do or offer that the Su-30MKI will not?
I'm also not sure if the Tejas is being referred to anyone from either IAF HQ or ADA as the LCA. In all official corresapondence and official on-the-record interviews, ADA no longer refers to the Tejas as the LCA, rather it is called Tejas Mk1 and Tejas Mk2. All PVs and TDs flying at Aero India last February had only 'Tejas' painted into the fuselage, and nowhere was the abbreviation 'LCA' seen on the airframe. Thirdly, as successive IAF Chiefs have stated since 2005, the IAF will optimise all its new-generation manned aircraft platforms for effects-based operations, i.e. carrying PGMs whose destructive firepower is not quantified by their weightage, but by their ability to strike their targets with precision. As the Tejas Mk1/2 will not be exceptions and since it too will have extended flight endurance (thanks to its in-flight refuelling probe), I fail to see how exactly the Tejas Mk2 in particular will be 'light', or will be inferior in any respect to the likes of the MiG-29K or even the F-16IN or Gripen IN.

Prasun K Sengupta said...

Continued from above....
As for the landing gear issue, Northrop Grumman is indeed one of the subcontractors to one of the consortiums that have submitted their bids to ADA. Northrop Grumman need not come in as an independent or principal bidder and has instead come in as one of the consortium members just as it has for the M-MRCA competition (being part of rival consortiums led by Lockheed Martin and Boeing IDS).

Anonymous said...

"As for the 'bolter' from the angled deck, the reqd runway length depends on the configuration of the aircraft, i.e. if it has to do a bolter after it has already come in to land in clean configuration (without carrying its weapons payloads and retaining only 15% fuel reserve), or whether it is still carrying its offensive payload when reqd to do the bolter. If the latter is the case it would require at least a deck length of no less than 400 metres (as the ski ramp isn't available in the angled flight deck to produce the reqd lift)"

Prasun. As I said,you will be better off sticking to fiction writing. This is more gassing from you. Why some polemicist like Arundhati Roy would do better with these topics.Atleast she doesnt pretend to write on technical matters.

Consider that 400 meter lenght rubbish. What matters is the bring back load in a carrier and that is constrained by the load the arresting cables can take. The plane is any way flying above take off speed (all that stuff about controlled crash etc, which Ajai Shukla wrote about, thump and bash) and can take off even it is a bolter as long the engine is putting out power.

That 400 meter angled flight deck is total rubbish. Go google around and check. The largest aircraft carriers in the world,the Nimitz class and Enterprise class,have a TOTAL lenght of around 330 meters or so max. The angled flight deck is much smaller than the straight through deck lenght.

Surely you are not suggesting that for America carrier ops, with your ridiculous 400m lenght plucked out of thin air, they actually dump all their heavy A2G weapons before coming in to land and not merely that the plane is within the bring back load envelope.

devsethi said...

For ANONYMOUS 23:47.
India's oil&gas hits are common knowledge since 2002.Obviously you do not read the print media / GOI/ ONGC/ INTERNATIONAL Rig zone reports on the subject.Bombay High has been with us since 1974.No attack todate.WHY? As for Osama bin laden no country in their right mind wants him in their land.

Vincent said...

Actually before the Super Hornet, planes routinely dumped A2G ordanance into the sea before landing. That's why mission planning is so important on carrier ops.

You have been schooled.

Broadsword said...

Hi Prasun,

"To Broadsword: Hi Ajai! While the 'issue' of going for Martin Maker-built ejection seats was settled in the mid-1990s, contract signature for placing firm orders had not taken place then. What I meant to ask you was if contract signature had taken place in the recent past."

Is that so? Okay.
-------------

"As for the 'bolter' from the angled deck, the reqd runway length depends on the configuration of the aircraft, i.e. if it has to do a bolter after it has already come in to land in clean configuration (without carrying its weapons payloads and retaining only 15% fuel reserve), or whether it is still carrying its offensive payload when reqd to do the bolter. If the latter is the case it would require at least a deck length of no less than 400 metres (as the ski ramp isn't available in the angled flight deck to produce the reqd lift)."

Prasun, when an aircraft comes around to land on an aircraft carrier, it normally jettisons fuel, not armaments. Simple economics.
-------------

"With regard to taking forward my own logic, why is the IAF buying an MMRCA then? A very good point indeed, as no one from IAF HQ has as yet been able to give convincing answers to this question."

Prasun, I don't recall anyone from IAF HQ ever trying to answer this question. Actually, it isn't a question at all in my mind. The IAF does need medium fighters, just as it needs light and heavy fighters.
---------------------

"If that is the case, then what exactly is it that a Gripen IN or F-16IN or Rafale or EF-2000 will be able to do or offer that the Su-30MKI will not?"

Err, I'm a bit puzzled here. Unless I've missed the entire point, what you're arguing is the equivalent of: Why should we buy Light Machine Guns? We've already got rifles and MMGs.
----------------

"I'm also not sure if the Tejas is being referred to anyone from either IAF HQ or ADA as the LCA. In all official corresapondence and official on-the-record interviews, ADA no longer refers to the Tejas as the LCA, rather it is called Tejas Mk1 and Tejas Mk2. All PVs and TDs flying at Aero India last February had only 'Tejas' painted into the fuselage, and nowhere was the abbreviation 'LCA' seen on the airframe."

And the point you're making is? We should stop referring to it as LCA and call it Tejas?

btw, the ADA refers to the Naval LCA only as Naval LCA. I've never ever heard them call it Naval Tejas.
--------------------

"Thirdly, as successive IAF Chiefs have stated since 2005, the IAF will optimise all its new-generation manned aircraft platforms for effects-based operations, i.e. carrying PGMs whose destructive firepower is not quantified by their weightage, but by their ability to strike their targets with precision. As the Tejas Mk1/2 will not be exceptions and since it too will have extended flight endurance (thanks to its in-flight refuelling probe), I fail to see how exactly the Tejas Mk2 in particular will be 'light', or will be inferior in any respect to the likes of the MiG-29K or even the F-16IN or Gripen IN."

I must be missing the point again. I've always had the impression that the categorisation into light, medium and heavy had to do with a lot more than just the punishment that the fighter could inflict on a target. With things like fuel consumption, RCS, ground infrastructure, runway issues, take-off weight at high altitudes, and other important differentiators.

But since you've decided quite conclusively that the IAF is making an artificial differentiation, I'll leave it at that.
--------------------

"As for the landing gear issue, Northrop Grumman is indeed one of the subcontractors to one of the consortiums that have submitted their bids to ADA"

Northrop Grumman has told me quite emphatically that they are not in, neither as the lead agent, nor as a subcontractor. ADA has told me exactly the same thing.

But since you're convinced about it, I'll leave it at that.

Arvind said...

Re Ajai

The new Order for 6 Naval LCA are single seaters or twin trainer version?

WGP said...

Chinese Air Force J-11B advantages and disadvantages compared with the Su-35
http://china-arsenal.blogspot.com/2009/10/chinese-air-force-j-11b-advantages-and.html