Tuesday, 22 September 2009

The China-India dynamic: Worried dragon; outraged elephant











(Photos: courtesy Ajai Shukla)
The village of Mago, near the Line of Actual Control between India and China. Reaching Mago took me two days of walking from the nearest road head)


by Ajai Shukla
Business Standard, 22nd Sept 09

The recent focus on the Line of Actual Control (LAC) between India and China has shed little light on what is actually going on there, although something certainly is. Clearly, though, little has changed since 1962 in the way we react as a people to any perceived threat: with neither information, analysis, nor military resources, we clamour for action, stern and immediate!

Neither the fulminating television newscasters, nor the millions who tune in to watch them, nor the thousands who send in outraged SMSs, letters and emails, have asked an important question: is Beijing raising the temperature on the LAC, howsoever slightly, because it worries about something that India is doing? Does our obsessive insecurity prevent us from seeing that China might have insecurities of its own? What might those concerns be?

If our government has thought over the matter, it is not telling. Pooh-poohing suggestions of heightened tension on the border, India’s foreign minister has inelegantly described the LAC as, “one of the most peaceful boundaries that we have had” (sic). New Delhi is deflecting attention from the border and nobody is wondering why.

What is generating those wisps of smoke, admittedly faint, emanating from the dragon’s nostrils?

To put things in context, it must be remembered that the 16 years since the “Peace and Tranquillity Agreement” of 1993 have not been entirely tranquil. Patrols from both sides have routinely muscled through to what they respectively claim as the LAC. This, however, evokes only pro forma complaints during border meetings. In places like the disputed “Finger Area” in Sikkim, Chinese patrols have actually pointed (but not fired) weapons at Indian jawans. Indian patrols, bound by tighter guidelines, wave banners at the Chinese on which requests to vacate Indian territory are emblazoned in Chinese characters. The restraints irritate our hot-blooded junior officers, but that’s life on the LAC.

Today Chinese patrols are bullying Indian graziers, and sending Tibetan graziers into pastures that they have ignored for 15 years. But it is hardly time to press panic buttons, or declare a media war on China,

Assuming that the world’s China watchers are right, and that Beijing’s economic stakes in the rubric of “The Peaceful Rise of China” holds back its historical expansionism, the LAC foot stamping can hardly be a precursor to hostilities with India. But the shift in China’s behaviour must certainly be examined.

Recent years have seen two major changes along the LAC. The first, on the Tibetan side, is China’s development drive to transform local economies. Most Tibet-watchers believe that China’s frenetic infrastructure building is aimed primarily at winning over recalcitrant Tibetans; a secondary aim is to be able to move troops around Tibet swiftly to quash outbreaks of rebellion; and a side benefit is the ability to move forces quickly to defend Chinese territory.

But, viewed from the Indian side, China’s infrastructure drive is a serious threat, each road and railway line a dagger thrust forward into India’s heart. China’s five highways running to the border, soon to be supplemented with railway lines, allows the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) to build up forces quickly at a chosen point on the LAC to overwhelm local Indian posts well before reinforcements can be brought in along India’s creaky border roads.

India’s failure to build matching infrastructure has two causes: the difficult terrain on the Indian side, and the government’s slothfulness in planning and executing projects. But New Delhi makes up by its willingness to deploy an increasing number of jawans on the Himalayan watershed. India is raising two more divisions in the northeast, some 40,000 jawans more along the LAC, a provocative act in China’s eyes. Originally planned as a low-key reinforcement, the cat was let out of the bag by Arunachal Pradesh governor, General JJ Singh, who announced to the people of his state that India was raising two new divisions to protect them from the Chinese.

India’s force build-up is the second big change on the LAC. In the lexicon of geo-strategy, Beijing alleges that New Delhi is unilaterally altering the status quo in a disputed border region. “We’re only building roads for the benefit of our border people”, the Chinese strategists argue, “but India is building up forces”.

A third change is India’s new boldness in allowing the Dalai Lama to go ahead with a visit this November to the monastery town of Tawang. China worries that India’s influence over the Dalai Lama, the Tibetan Government-in-Exile, and the ability to wield the symbols of Buddhism, give New Delhi potent leverage in Tibet. For decades, New Delhi has danced to Beijing’s tune, restraining the Dalai Lama, cracking down on Tibetan protests, and even deploying hordes of police and paramilitary forces to ensure that the Beijing Olympic torch relay through Delhi is not marred by protests.

It is hard to see how New Delhi can stop the Dalai Lama’s visit to Tawang, without apparently kowtowing to Beijing. But Beijing’s dominance is such that it views the visit as a “provocation”.

With the Beijing-New Delhi relationship changing, China is struggling to accept the new reality. Complicating Beijing’s strategic calculus further is the realisation that pushing India beyond a point could push it overtly into Washington’s orbit.

Back on the LAC, China is signalling displeasure over all these issues. But the mildness of the signals reflects the constraints in China’s options. At this point, there is little more that the Dragon can do.

51 comments:

Vincent said...

Stop apologizing for the pure evil that is China, and the brain washed, aggressive, over crowded people who call themselves Chinese.

China has invaded or fought wars, in the last 50 years, with all its neighbours.

1. Tibet Invasion
2. Attempted Taiwan assault
3. Invaded Vietnam
4. Attacked India
5. Seized Russia's Adamsky Islands by force
6. Invaded South Korea

No one is their right minds, while shifting polluting and low wage industries to that moral-less country, trusts it. Everyone is arming like crazy. Russia has 75% of its military strength on the border with China.

Everyone is just waiting for something to kick off so they can skin the dragon and humble it. NATO just invited Russia to discuss linking up their SAM systems soon.

Anonymous said...

To Ajai ji,

I would accept the point of view int he article, but what about the fact that the Dragon is hatching some eggs in it's nest to sting India in the northeast.

It's a open secret how the militants are trained in China and infiltrate to the north east creating trouble.

Not, Withstanding our governments planning in not being above to effectively develop the Northeast region with maintaining a balance in not destroying the natural resources and making some meaningful development possible.

I know there has been work done at ground level ( mentioning this fact because we know how the need of the hour soon after independence drove India to some mindless industrialization to a good extent, considering a proper planning is possible for the development of the infrastructure in the Northeast, some balanced Planning)but we need much better planning and the infrastructure needs to be developed.

I would wish I could get your opinion on the above.

Anonymous said...

Come on, why are you apologising for China?

I doubt these two new divisions are enough to liberate Tibet. And what of East Turkestan, there are no moves in that direction are there? Logically, with Turkey showing interest, helping the East Turkestanis would be a good way to neutralise the Chinese-Pakistani nexus on Kashmir and promote saner Muslim culture in the region. But there are no moves in that direction are there?

Anonymous said...

It's not apologising. It is analyzing and looking at the big picture. Mind you this comes from a reporter who has actually been there, talked to locals/servicemen posted there and seen the ground reality for himself rather than some Aaj Tak sensationalizing reporter giving a "Breaking News" of Chinese aggression.
Lung power which a lot of our countrymen believe in will not do anything especially with the Chinese they will understand only a big stick.

Anonymous said...

Ajai, What do you mean by India China relationship is changing? Are you saying that India is becoming assertive? If yes, what is the reason for that. What has channged.

Anonymous said...

As long as Congress is in power, India can not be assertive because the CP is founded on chmcha gire and gulami. Indian Foreign Affairs ministry appears to be full of apologists to maintain the status quo. If India wants to claim itself as any type of regional power, then it must get over the apologizing dogma and learn to say NO!. Look at the puny but venomous Pakis, they shoot across the porder whenever they want to b'cos they know a flag meeting will be held and the Indians will protest, Indians need to respond with greater force so that it is more expensive for them to repeat this behaviour. This will make the Chinks think twice too.

AK said...

The title should have been "Worried Elephant, outraged Dragon".
From all the accounts that we have had over the past few weeks, it is the Chinese that seem to be the aggressive lot. India as usual has been hemming and hawing about. However, the report is more balanced and saner than most of the ToI-let paper being generated by other media houses.

Anonymous said...

Ajai ji, when r u planning the next update on Arjun / Arjun Mk-2

Anonymous said...

BBC is quite dangerous and it speaks for its govt. in one broadcast which i saw in you tube,the reporter started like this" Sikkim, once an independent kingdom, whose culture reminds close to the chinese became a piece of India and ......."

Anonymous said...

@anon 22 September 2009 09:01

The biggest change I can recall of happening in India is "Left" going out of government. That could be a reason enough for the government to be assertive.

Jovian said...

Greetings to all posting on this blog,

This will be my first post here, but I will have to admit it is not my first visit; I have been reading the postings on this blog for sometime. As a gesture of courtesy, allow me to introduce myself. I am an Australia, but I was born in Malaysia. My ancestry is Chinese, but I have never been to China before; in fact, neither had my parents. I started following the “rise of China and India” as it is hardly something anyone can ignore here in Australia; both countries are purchasing vast quantities of resources from Australia in recent years and contributing to much healthy growth here. Therefore, my interest in following the “military build up” or “arms race” in Asia is also a side effect (shall we call it that?). As this is just a posting of comments, I hope no one here will mind if I reframe from using my real name.

I think I came across Broadsword’s blog round the end of last year or the beginning of this year; I was looking for photos of the P-17 Frigate at the time, they were hard to find for a while. Let me congratulate Broadsword for a job well done on his blog.

Now in regard to the comments posting, I can’t say I am surprise by the kind of language that was used here; I guess that is expected for online posting these day, as everyone will, one way or another resort the a similar method when they know others do not know who they really are; or at least don’t expect their identity to be discovered.

In reference to the article being commented here, I do wonder could it possibly be that there are people with special interest who would prefer that more Indians worries more about a possible attack from China, rather then focusing on the more critical tasks of nation building. I remember around the time of the Tiananmen Massacre/Incident that there was a documentary call “Great Wall of Iron”; about the Chinese military. If any of you had seen it, you will come to a very simple conclusion. The People Liberation Army is antiquated. The manufacturing process for their tanks, the training of their pilots, the equipments on their ships are something that you expected to see from the Second World War! What did they do? The Chinese basically focused on building their country, and appears to only do a bare minimum on their military; the problem is of cause the size of that “bare minimum” which on paper will look massive.

What I am hoping to say is that India should focus its considerable might on strengthening its economy base first, and not commit to a costly military build up that at this point appears to be neither necessary nor practical. The Chinese might appears to be building big, but just count their number of ships, tanks and planes; they are still very much the outdated military that I saw on that program in 1988. However, the perception of their power is enough to deter potential crisis and isn’t that the true purpose of an army in the first place?

Take the island dispute with Japan as a case study. The simple answer to why the Chinese doesn’t assert their claim is that “they are not able to do so.” The Japanese Self Defense Marine Force is more than a match for the People Liberation Army Navy, and the Chinese knows it. They will not risk their veil of strength on a small number of islands, even if those islands have potential of a vast oil reserve under them.

On that note, why is India spending vast amount of their national reserves on military hardware? Have you wondered why at this point is the United State is authorizing the sales of military hardwares to India? Especially at a time when there is a financial crisis.

Just some comments for a friendly discussion.

Vincent said...

Jovian,

zu jui, kong fei.

Jovian said...

Hi Vincent,

You will have to speak English as I am not educated in Chinese.

Vincent said...

Let me tell you something about China. it is a land where anything goes to keep the Chinese people, like you and half of me, under the thumb of the communist government, who have, up to date, killed 25 million Chinese through starvation and countless others through re-education, cursory violence and meaningless conflicts.

For example, the Chinese government says its military budget is 40 billion. Well and good, except it doesn't count the amount used for the People's Armed Police and other internal suppression groups, as well as research and technology, nor its procurement budget, nor the budget accumulated from operating plants and businesses. Like any commies, paranoia is the name of the game, so they will never place all their military strength in one group like the PLA.

For every dollar declared spent on the PLA, 40 billion, 3 other dollars are spent on internal security and stability, and then there's the undeclared stuff.

You still think that the commies are no threat to anyone, including Australia or Malaysia? You forget the chinese government censuring and attacking Australian film festivals for showing independent films on Tibet, or attacking German book conventions for having 2 dissidents speak. This is a country that does not tolerate any dissent whatever in their own sphere of power, one that is growing. It used to be only to the misery of its citizens, cancer villages, organ harvesting, children selling, rampant prostitution of Chinese women around the world by government-related gangs, etc.

The Chinese man or woman is very pleasant and can be very noble. However, the commies have made him paranoid, violent, slavish, aggressive and money-loving to the point of zero ethics.

In Malaysia, Chinese prostitutes on employment passes were tested to have HIV virus whereupon they escaped back into society and what did they immediately do? Start to hook clients but this time offering additional pleasure of no condoms. The Chinese individual has been oppressed to the point of completely amoral and mercenary. (There are estimated 20 million Chinese women working abroad as prostitutes).

The commies have destroyed the value of being Chinese and thousands of years of Chinese culture. How can you defend a country run by such people? I can't wait for the democratic revolution to start.

Vincent said...

Imagine a country like Korea giving poor Chinese students scholarships to study in their country. These Chinese students, who don't know anything but how to study, have been brainwashed from youth, and taught that anything goes if you receive criticism, because nobody, absolutely nobody can understand what it means to be Chinese (I can speak and read Chinese, and this is utterly balls).

So these students, allowed into Korea, food paid for an everything, see the peaceful protests of Korean citizens in their own capital about the Beijing Olympics? What did they do? As a mob, they attacked the peaceful protests, beating people to the ground with rocks, shoes and home made weapons, and not satisfied with that, broke into a hotel where a discussion group on the Olympics was being held and tore the place up. Remember, these people were there on the good will of the Korean people.

Imagine an entire society organized along these lines of hyper nationalism and wanton violence, which is usually kept suppressed by even more violent police, but there are 70,000 documented large scale riots in China a year. Now, how difficult would it be for the commies to mobilize these people into a frenzied mob to attack India, as they already did to Japanese businesses in China when Jap businessmen were filmed screwing chinese prostittues? (the number 1 export of China).

There would be no civil society restraint to hold the commies hand. No one would speak up to the commies if they found it advantageous to attack its neighbours. This is the reason why Korea, Japan, even Singapore are arming like there's no tomorrow (do you need advanced F-15Ks to strike North Korea, especially ones armed with advanced Blk 2 Harpoons?)

the Koreans have woken up. The howl of protests over the behavior of the chinese people was incredible. Don't sleep Asia, there is evil walking in the night.

Vincent said...

I ask you only 1 final question - if the Chinese government treats its own people this way, what makes you think it will treat you, a foreign citizen even of Chinese ethnicity, better?

All is disguised under smiles and hospitality for the sake of money and only money. You would be crazy to survive on the goodwill of the Chinese. At the North Korean border the Chinese border police would not blink an eyelid at starving Koreans crawling over the river border on their bellies but would arrest them and hand them over back to North Korea with their hands tied together with barbed wire.

If you have money and you have a big gun, you can talk calmly to China. Otherwise, find a powerful friend.

Anonymous said...

Is there any anti-virus s/w tool which can remove this pest called " VINCENT"

Vincent said...

shut up commie chink. go pray to your altar of mao (which means hair).

Rahul Singh said...

Ajai sir,

Please please please post something on PV-5 and LSP-3.

I hope, i am not annoying you.

Thanks.

Indian! said...

@Vincent

"Chinese people, like you and half of me"

So you are half-Chinese...hhhmmm but why you are pissed at Chinese/China. It is very very rare to find a Chinese who pissed at China.

And at the same time you piss at India too....

Indian! said...

Anyways,

Ajai Sir,

Just heard the news that India has authorized 5 new bases(Pasighat, Tuting, Vijaynagar, Walong and Mechuka bases which are close to the China border) now to be fully used by Army & IAF as their bases in Arunachal Pradesh. They were meant to be upgraded by MOD but now GOI has fully authorized Army/IAF to have controlled over them and activate them. It also includes the setting up of air force headquarters in the state and an airstrip for spy Drones at Anini.

If you are aware of it then can you please post some updates regarding the same ?

Indian! said...

Ajai Sir One more thing

Do you think that the recent India's build up along China's Border like: opening up old Airbases Daulat Beg Oldi(although it was last year) airbase, Fukche airbase and Nyoma ALG, placing SU-30MKI in Tezpur Assam, then placing 30,000 to 40,000 Army in forward posts. And now opening 5 more air bases in AP.

As I do understand with these moves that GOI wants to act don't want to over hype the issue.

Do you see all this related to on going Dalai Lamas visit ? Is it really gonna provoke China to put us into war like situation ?

Anonymous said...

@ALL
When someone is right say it with authority and i m all praise for Vincent for his post.What he has written is sheer truth but some dumb idiots who want to be MUH MIA MITHU don't understand this.
Come on i do get the fact that sometimes he goes out of the way but think......why is he compelled to speak such things??We have been living in a bubble and it's high time we break it.

Anonymous said...

Vincent - with all due respect folks like me visit this blog to get Ajai's viewpoint plus also engage in some sharing of ideas and opinions. By you filling this blog with your non stop comments it's getting to be rather tiresome. Now I won't waste my time by calling you names and such. You obviously wish to be heard and desire attention (in whatever form it may come), may I recommend you start your own blog and give us guys a break from your monotone.

SmarterOne said...

to anon @ 22 September 2009 09:17
Mr. BJP supporter lemme tell u - others are far worse for they dont understand governance & their foreign relation booklet has only one name - US of A. Rhetoric is fine for election speeches but a country cannot be run on it.

Trust me if the GoI is downplaying the recent incursions - there is a reason for that. GoI doesnt want to put media focus on the LAC as it is silently building its war machine (and also the much needed infrastructure) along the chinese border.

Incursions are a way of life on the LAC and both chinese as well as Indian troops keep intruding in each other's teritory. And the paranoia built by the media is also exaggerated.
As far as war with china goes - there will be no full scale war, only limited conflicts. And in such a scenario we are in a better position to defend as both Ladakh & NE areas are a defender's paradise. We'll be able to squeeze the chinks & cut their supply.
morever statusquo on the LAC suits the chinese more.

Chinese are far more paranoid than Indians are. They constantly loose sleep over Indian progresses - be it economic, military, social or technological. For they very well know that only India is capable to outdo them.

There are historical aspects as well as the dissent that is brewing inside its borders that worry the chinese.

China's claims over their progress are half truths & half propaganda so there is extra cause for worry.

India & Indians go hand in hand while China is surging ahead but the Chinese are suppresed behind.

Prasun K Sengupta said...

SmarterOne, do you really believe that any country nowadays can "silently built its war machine"? Well, if you do so, then let me state it as loud for you as possible: The Indian Army is raising two new Divisions--41 Mountain Div (based in Binaguri) and 56 Mountain Division (location yet to be determined). Due to this, an extra 55,000 personnel will be recruited and their support costs will be a nett addition to the MoD's sanctioned establishment costs. By 2011, III Corps (now being restructured as the offensive Corps) will comprise 56 Mtn Div, 41 Mtn Div and the Rangla-based 2 Mtn Div (presently under IV Corps). From then on, the XXXIII Corps in Sukhna for Sikkim sector), III Corps in Dimapur and IV Corps in Tezpur will be 100% China-centric. To cater to the airmobility and aerial logistics replenishment reqmts of these three Corps, an additional 40 Mi-17V-5s will shortly be ordered for the IAF over and above the 80 already ordered. Also, 12 Heron 2 UAVs are being procured by the Army for these three Corps-sized formations. The remaining two holding Corps under HQ Eastern Command will each have one rapid reaction airmobile infantry Brigade for localised contingencies along the Bangladesh and Myanmar fronts.
As for your misplaced belief that the so-called and much-needed infrastructure is being built and upgraded along the LAC, nothing is further from the truth. And that is precisely why BROADSWORD has described the attitude of successive GoIs as being "slothfulness in planning and executing projects". There's a huge difference between announcing grandiose plans for upgrading border area transportation infrastructure and actually implementing such projects. Do you know exactly how many such projects were directly approved by the Indian PMO wat back in early 2000 and how many of them have seen the light of day? None! Another prominent example here will suffice: OP Falcon was conceived by the Indian Army in 1976 on behalf of the China Study Group and was approved for implementation in 1980. It called for a massive construction effort by the Border Roads Organisation (BRO) of a comprehensive network of paved asphalted roads connecting the Army's rear logistics areas to all the Indian border outposts throughout the Sino-Indian border starting from Turtok in Jammu & Kashmir all the way up to the China-India-Bhutan trijunction (i.e. the MacMohan Line). However, for unknown reasons, OP Falcon was terminated by the then govt headed by PM Rajiv Gandhi in late 1986. EX Checker Board was designed to test out the IAF's aerial logistics in support of multiple Brigade-sized rapid deployments by the Army in the event of an outbreak of conventional hostilities with China. During the Somdorong Chu incident with China's PLA in 1986, elements of Ex Checker Board were converted into OP Trident and a complete Army Brigade was airlifted and deployed 22km ahead of the nearest available roadway, and all related operational logistics reqmts were met by aerial logistics support provided by the IAF. What is happening now with regard to III Corps being designated as the principal offensive formation to be deployed against the PLA is primarily the formalisation of an OP-PLAN that had existed on paper since 1986 merely as an exercise.

Prasun K Sengupta said...

Continued from above....
As far as the Indian Army's dissuasive deterrence capabilities against the PLA go (even for limited high-intensity conventional hostilities), the Indian Army today is outgunned, outmanoeuvred and outclassed in almost every sphere of conventional warfighting, thanks to successive Indan govts not buying even a single 155mm field artillery howitzer since 1987, not making the reqd investments in acquiring all-terrain armoured vehicles for light mechanised forces, and paying scant attention to the layered air defence reqmts of IAF air bases. A visit to the air base at Leh will reveal that till this day there are no 3-D gapfiller radars or M-SAM or SHORADS deployments throughout Ladakh, only a handful of Igla-S shoulder-launched VSHORADS! If this situation prevails then deploying Su-30MKIs at Leh or Tezpur will be suicidal.

KR said...

The biggest change I can recall of happening in India is "Left" going out of government.

And what do you think the Congress/UPA is, if not the "Left"?

Vincent said...

I have decided to write my own blog, and expect all you Anonymouses to read it and comment, except for the Anonymous Chutiya at 23:09.

Watch out for the link on Ajai's blog and Livefist blog coming soon.

Jovian said...

Hi again, and in particular Vincent,

How are you? Thanks for the courtesy of telling me a little bit more about you. Although I still trying to figure out the reason behind the extreme of your negative view towards the Chinese. Having said that, I am not suggesting that you or anyone should not be allow to voice your opinion, be it with wisdom or ignorant. If you like, I can entertain you for a bit in hearing your side of the story. However, please do reframe from labeling anyone with terms that you would not like to be labeled yourself.

I came here to put forward my own view on this matter of the border issue between the Indian and the Chinese, so it is only out of courtesy that I am offering you a hearing on your view. However, I am looking for a much higher standard that what you have display thus far. I have read you previous posting before, and am impressed with the point you put forward on the TVC (Thrust Vector Control?) on Russian fighter jets; the basic argument from you was that the United State were pioneer of the technology, and didn’t implement the technology for lt’s lack of additional benefit. I do apologize to the other poster for not reading most of the other posting, for the unfortunate reason that I didn’t have the time. I was always quite impressed with the ability of Russian fighters at air show, but I have to admit that I didn’t wonder why the United State Air Force didn’t implement the same technology before. Now Vincent, having said that, I am hopeful that you are someone who is capable of higher quality discussion, and not restricted to throwing random labels at others. Please don’t disappoint, yourself included.

A little bit more about myself for the benefit of the discussion here then. I tend to see myself as someone who is more to the left side of politics then the right. However, to me that doesn’t mean everything on the right is “bad” and that on the left is “good”; we have our fair share of politicians of dubious standings here! Our former Prime Minister, John Howard, did not have my support at the ballot box, but do have my support as the elected Prime Minister. I see our current government as a big spender, and am concern by the vast amount of money that are being spend on issues like defenses while there are still so many homeless people here in Australia.

You can say the time of ideology have long since passed for me as I am looking forward to being a father for the first time, and seeing my child growing up. When ideology ceases to be of relevant to you Vincent, you will find that the practical side of life requires you to see things quite differently; the sooner you do so, the more prepare you will be for it.

My main point is still that everyone is spending too much on defenses when more can be done to safeguard regional security with less big spending. Remember, war is only an extension of politics not the other way around. My main disagreement against massive military spending is primary with the fact that the more are spend on military, the less will be available for other social responsibilities; these are tax payer money, NOT government money.

continue...

Jovian said...

continue...

If the argument is that everyone in the region is spending big, I have to argue on the reason behind this build up in the first place. Is it the Chinese who started it? Does it matter at all? All I can see is that major military manufacturers, especially company in the US are the main beneficiary. When all is done and said, at the end of the day we have to ask question on these spending which are suppose to have been done on our behalf!

Vincent, you appear to view the Chinese with overly simplistic terms. Now, I am not going to say much more on this point, at least until I know more about you. I do not think it would be right for me to comment on your view without first getting a better understanding of it first. Hope to hear some friendly chat from you then.

One further note, I don’t think country like Singapore is arming like no tomorrow. So far, I think for all their faults, the Singaporean is doing a fine job keeping their country in good financial shape. Is it a case of “more ships, more planes and more tanks”, or “new ships, new planes and new tanks”? Just some food for thoughts.

SmarterOne said...

Prasun yer comments itself prove my point of GOI building its war machine "silently". If you saw ads or media coverage or GoI press briefings (or brochures in yer case) of all that u listed then I'm one ignorant lot.
& btw with all the cynicism of yers for everything in this country y r u still living here? y not find a better place to live in & leave us Indians in peace.
Sorry Prasun dint wanted to join the Prasun hate club but I think m also getting pissed by yer recent comments here & elsewhere.
Never heard of a single word of praise by u in ne of the blogs. n' btw i din meant praise for me but for all things Indian. wt u always do is crib, criticize & cry foul. I think there is more good to this country even after all shortcomings - the very reason we survived all these years.

Anonymous said...

"outraged elephant" ?

This feels like France in the 30s.

Mike D said...

Vincent - I'm the visitor to this blog you have so endearingly called "Anonymous Chutiya at 23:09" - I'm a respected self made man and am proud of what I have achieved. I'm honest and respectful of other people's views, but at the same time I believe in giving others an opportunity to air their comments. The problem with you my friend (I'm using the term very loosely) is you do not believe in giving others a chance to speak. All you want to do is give your two cents and to heck with letting others trying to get in a word even side ways. I'm glad you have taken up my suggestion of writing your own blog...but pray, do promise you will limit your frustrations to just your blog and I promise I will never visit yours!!!

Vincent said...

All the self madeness and respect can't buy you a sense of humor though. You must often practice laughing in front of a mirror.

Vishnu said...

This might be a little out of context..but really want to know about the Joint development of the 5th gen aircraft.

Any clue what stage is it in??specs etc?

It would surely boost our air capabilities!

Anonymous said...

Vincent, why don't you start your own blog instead of hijacking every other blog. Its really annoying to see you bragging wherever I go.

Prasun K Sengupta said...

To SmarterOne: What may be cynicism and unpalatable for you is objectivity for me. Whether ot not you can digest my views or statements or whether or not you join any Hate Prasun conglomerate/club doesn't bother me at all. As for your statement: "& btw with all the cynicism of yers for everything in this country y r u still living here?"--in case you're referring to India, I'm neither an Indian citizen nor a person residing in India. Hope you find that reassuring and hopefully it will reinstate your perceived sense of security.

Anonymous said...

IMO, Mk2 is the priority. PV-5 and LSP-3 can wait.

WEE said...

India is the only country where it throws the baby into the sea before its started to walk on its own.

Anonymous said...

Hmm... what a united bunch of Indians you are!

Also, so civil!

How much tolerance for other people's views!

Such humility in pointing out other people's ignorance!

Vincent said...

Exactly.

though I'm not surprised a lot of you don't listen to me more attentively.

After all, do you know why an Indian's brain fetches such high prices in the organ black market?

It's barely been used.

Indian! said...

"though I'm not surprised a lot of you don't listen to me more attentively."

Well actually yes this is true and it is only because....

When they talk about Navy Ships....you talk about LCA.
they talk about LCA....you jumps on predicting LCH's failure.
they talk about LCH....you talk about Indian GDP

you on jumping to offtopic and distracting the readers no matter how truth is there in your comments but I saw many times you talk about something else irrelevant to the Topic.

It always takes 2 to make a quarrel not just one.

Anonymous said...

@ vincent: "though I'm not surprised a lot of you don't listen to me more attentively."

- which should they? are you an authority on the matter?

Anonymous said...

Vincent - you're like an irritating boil...do we have to wait for you to shrivel up to get some peace or can you just remain on topic?

Anonymous said...

Prasun, you said you are neither an Indian citizen nor a person resides in India. I know you are based in Malaysia. But are you a Malaysian Citizen?

Simranjit Singh said...

Hi Ajai Sir

Please provide any latest news about IJT Sitara.
According to your blog first production prototype was to fly in early september but we haven't heard anything new after that.
Has the prototype already been flown?? If yes can you please arrange some photos ??

Thanks

Anonymous said...

:rotfl:

Ehud Telev said...

Prasun K Sengupta wants those curious about his identity to see him as The Jackal.He said here he is neither Indian and neither resides in India;in his own blog he says he is not Malaysian and is not based in Malaysia.So this simply means he is either UK or more likely US based.I think bloggers are entitled to know something about his credentials to listen to him.I mean we need not know his phone number and marital status but country of residence,qualifications etc.Do you object Mr Sengupta?

Anonymous said...

Don't Know what the hell is happening this the first ever hlog i am writting and the only reason is; it seems its not about the defence industry its more about the third class SAS BAHU KI GHATIA KAHANI where every one is Typing some Shit. sorry to be offencive but i had to do it.

Anonymous said...

Lot of comments from the reader here.
Unfortunately nothing of an substance.

How many of us know what is the Order of Battle of the Chinese forces opposing the Indian forces?
Heck how many of us know which brigade did the Chinese employ in 62 war?

Have any one considered the effect of the 2nd Artillery of PLA? or the Chinese doctrine of massive artillery/bm attack?

China is not going to rush troops through the passes. The Chinese very well concede the area advantage to the Indian forces. Why rush troops when it can rain ballistic missiles on our log train?

And the biggest question. Why are we looking at the wrong place? instead of the Indian Ocean? China is not going to spend it's resources on silly ground war in AP when it's life line passes under the Indian nose(i.e Indian Ocean).

It's time we reduce our fixation towards our cousins on the western border and have some Chinese observers among us.