Sunday, 1 March 2009

Back from the Shivalik... so many stories to tell!!


(Photo: courtesy Ajai Shukla)

Ajai Shukla, obstructing your view of the INS Shivalik. Lots of photos will be posted in due course.

53 comments:

Harpreet said...

I have been waiting for this view for soooo long. Thanks.

su market said...

Sigh!! So it took MDL 6 years to copy talwars. They have ended up with a 5000 tonne ship that can barely match the 3600 tonne talwars. Pretty pathetic ship for the 21st century.

Anonymous said...

Someone feeling the pain of not able to market foreign products.

BeasF137 said...

Su market, help us understand what you mean by your comment "They have ended up with a 5000 tonne ship that can barely match the 3600 tonne talwars."?

Pritam said...

Thanks a lot.

Please post some pics.

It seems to have Kashmir SAM system but I expected something VLS!!!

But OK.

Anonymous said...

great....hit me hard with more pics.

Anonymous said...

good ship but pretty comparible to talwars.....su market doesnt know what hes talking about...although i think shivalik will carry 2 helicopters and the garpun bal radar indicates klub or vls brahmos missiles.
So Ill say maybe 8 brahmos or Klubs. t he main gus is a stealth gun. All in all a decent ship and should be able to hold its own against the enemy.
visit here to learn more bout shivalik http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/ships/future/190-project-17.html

Maximus said...

Hurry up!

su market said...

The ship has almost the same weapon fit as talwars or the follow on order's. It has no VLS SAM's and still uses a pathetic single arm launcher. Its only advantage compared to Talwars is 2 choppers. The russians had been marketing the VLS Shtil-1 for a while, why not that if barak-2 is not ready? Whats the fascination with a single arm launcher?

Anonymous said...

Col Shukla, we realize you are a handsome man but I hate to tell you that the ship is better looking - at least in my eyes. So, could you please spare us the suspense and release one picture a day.

TIA

Anonymous said...

Ajay, very well done Sir! We cannot thank you enough for bringing this scoop. Many, many ppl have been waiting for many, many years for this day to pass.

We shall be waiting with bated breath for the rest of the P-17 story.

Keep up the good job!

Harpreet said...

Criticism of INS Shivalik is unfounded. Barak 8 is yet to be developed and is meant for P15A. This was clear from the very beginning. The VLS Shtil has qualified only recently and after Shivalik was launched. This will come with the second batch of Krivaks. Since contracts are negotiated and finalized over a period of time it is unfair to expect pleasant surprises from such large projects. The rule here is "if it has not been announced it wont happen".

su market said...

Harpreet can you confirm VLS shtil on follow on talwars? That would be great.

Harpreet said...

su, This russian news clip shows the diagram of the new Indian Krivaks under construction. It appears to have a VL Shatil in place of a single arm launcher. So i take it as an "announcement".

Anonymous said...

Sir,

Cut out the suspense. Just get to a broadband internet connection and upload all the pictures.

Take your time with the articles... no hassle. Your writing style is cool and extremely well structured.

Tia
chiranth

Anonymous said...


sir,

Why this suspense??Sure u don't want to ensure that the page is refreshed again and again.
If the pics are there..then why don't u post them.

Anonymous said...

Ajai,
whats up with the white hair man. You seemed to have aged quite a bit in the last few monthe. Is it the climate in Arunachal Pradesh?

Anonymous said...

Ajai,
There was a post of shiv's blog that Dhruv has not been selected by navy even after fixing the excessive vibration as mentioned by you earlier in one of your posts.
could you shed some more light on this one?
-Raj

Ajai said...

Folks, give me a break! The photos are linked with the articles... I can't publish the photos before Business Standard does.

The articles are held back only because I need some people to respond to some questions that I have sent them. I have to --- as a responsible journalist --- give them some time to respond!

The stories around the Shivalik, as you have probably made out, are not just about the ship!!!

On the N-Dhruv, if you re-read my article, you will note that the navy's issues are about range, payload and foldable rotors more than about vibration. Those issues still remain.

Anonymous said...

and here we were thinking you would publish them only after comments reached a particular number like "21" or "25" :D
Take your time sir, as long as the pics are good and the info neverbefore kinds, we would wait for a bit.

Prasun K Sengupta said...
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Prasun K Sengupta said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
BeasF137 said...

Prasun, please tell us the difference between a CIC and the "citadel" of a Delhi class.

Where do you see the Deseaver on the P-17?

Help us ignorant ppl with the meaning of MECCA and MEDINA.

Pritam said...

Thanks Ajai ji. Thank you many times for your great effort.

Please release something soon.

Prasun K Sengupta said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

stop making cheap publicity prasun

Anonymous said...

Prasun, I am just dying to see your writeup on the P-17. You have done a great job on your other writeups. You must really be well connected for the Navy to give you CIC diagrams and what not. Do you have a GA diadram too? I am sure you do. Please share that with the fellaheen. My god, you are truly a giant among giants!

And in the name of Allah, what is the MEDINA/EMDINA system?

And Revathi for P-17! You are just making my day Sir!

Prasun K Sengupta said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Abhinaba said...

Is Revathi ready?

Prasun K Sengupta said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
SmarterOne said...

Thanx a lot Ajaiji. Waiting for yer stories & pics.
I've also made a humble begining with my blog - IndiaFirst
All fellow bloggers kindly visit & comment.

http://smarterone.blogspot.com

Cdr T G Sarkar, IN, Retd. said...

Someone corrections, Prasun –

There are FOUR MR-90 Orekh illuminators for Shtil-1. Two on fore and two on aft mast. SO WHERE DID YOU GET INFORMATION THAT THERE ARE “FIVE” ILLUNINATORS?

Aft mast in Talwar is a lattice for holding the radio antenna from another lattice just behind the main mast. Clearly seen in this picture http://www.defencepolicy.com/data/cheditor/0609/3_copy1.jpg It lacks the structural strength to carry a radar. SO WHERE DID YOU GET INFORMATION THAT THE SECOND MAST WILL CARRY A RADAR?

Two radars operating in the same frequency range interfere with each other. Revati and Fregat use the same frequency IEEE S-Band (2-4 GHz) NATO E/F band (E 2-3 GHz F 3-4 GHz). Secondary radar is usually IEEE L-Band NATO D Band (1-2 Ghz), ie RAWL or LW-08 or Thales SMART-L. This is the reason why Delhi carries Fregat (S-Band) + RAWL (L-Band), Godavari and Brahmaputra carry Elta 2238 (S-Band) + RAWL (L-Band) and Kolkata will carry ELTA 2248 (S-Band) + RAWL (L-Band). Here’s a DRDO link stating Revati is meant for Project 28 ASW corvettes http://www.drdo.org/Electronics/bharani.html. SO WHERE DID YOU GET INFORMATION THAT THE SECONDARY RADAR WILL BE REVATI?

I served on board INS Delhi and other ships. It has a Combat Information Centre (CIC) or Action Information Center (AIC). So does Godavari, Brahmaputra, Rajput & Talwar. Here is Vice Admiral GM Hiranandani PVSM, AVSM, NM, PhD (Retd) describing Project 16 CAAIS http://indiannavy.nic.in/t2t2e/trans2emins/10_project_16.htm. SO WHERE DID YOU GET INFORMATION THAT THERE IS NO CIC IN THESE SHIPS?

Citadels referred by you have nothing to do with CIC. The five citadels refer to five areas in a ship that are deliberately locked down during action stations and are designed to function despite severe battle / NBC damage to the rest of the ship. Hence the use of the term “citadel”. SO WHERE DID YOU GET INFORMATION THAT THERE IS ONLY ONE CITADEL IN SHIVALIK?

So please, for heaven’s sake, STOP SPECULATING AND MAKING A FOOL OF YOURSELF, when you don’t know. No one is perfect. There is no shame in admitting that. Everyone keeps learning all the time.

Anonymous said...

Well Prasun has just had his ass handed to him..

And rightly so.

Cdr T G Sarkar, IN, Retd. said...

Here's INS Shivaji's NBCD School briefly expaining the citadel concept on warships.

http://www.insshivaji.edu.in/nbcd.htm

Prasun K Sengupta said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

So you have no comments on T Sarkar puncturing your bombast on radars, on citadels and what not and now play semantic games about AIC/ CMS?

You are a liar, Prasun and you disguise your lies as truth with few brochures picked up at defence expos which they hand out to the general public.

In fact your entire blog is a joke, and you would have been shown up for reality a long time back, but for the fact you delete all comments that expose you, and only keep those that you can manage.

The contrast between someone like you and someone like Ajai couldnt be clearer.

Prasun K Sengupta said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

What data from OEMs? the pitiful excuses of brochures you copy from the internet or from handouts and then surround them with impressive sounding bullshit?
I have shown your blog to actual RD and BEL people, they think you are a joke and making things up. If not for your photo showing a sad middle aged men with penchant for self promotion, people would think you are a teenager obsessed with weapons and violence.

About post deletions, the simple fact is you delete anything that proves you are BS'ing. If this was your blog not Ajai's you would have quickly run and deleted tsarkars post since it would have shown reality which you hide, that you are wannabe armchair gazer without real knowledge.

Anonymous said...

let us see the simple things tsarkar said about radars and positioning, about what citadel concept actually means, about real number of illuminators. you could not counter ANY of those real points. you could only say you have brochures of EMCCA which is easily available at any expo. i have seen ten year old children carrying these brochure to ward off sun at defexpo and aero india.

you are basically amateur trying to talk up a game of being knowledgeable and very informed. and your ego cannot take the reality so you resort to abuse of t sarkar and other professional who tell the truth

Prasun K Sengupta said...

You're absolutely right. Whatever makes you happy. I forgive you. Adieu to you all.

Anonymous said...

you forgive me? what are you some saint? LOL, keep a hold of yourself man.

point is, stop plagiarizing and pretending what you are not.
be more humble about what you dont know and treat actual "doers" - servicemen and women, and scientific personnel with respect. as compared to blowing your own trumpet.

you are making a joke out of yourself with all this nonsense.

do you even know or care number of times you have written absolute BS, about T-90 tank, to radar to EW to anything?

stop being a poser my freind.

Aditya said...

That was beautiful.

I'm just posting here so that I can be part of the crowd that saw the royal ass-kicking that just happened.

Thank you, Cdr Sarkar, and may the force - and not PS' Farce - be with you.

Void Walker said...

hey guys and gals ,sorry for joining the party ( @ Prasun's Kick my Ass club)late....
Sarkar ji, may your tribe increase.

prasant.net said...

Haha ! Hilarious to see Prasun Sengupta get a royal dose of ass whooping, and subsequently delete his comments from here.
This further erodes his credibility, which he didn't have too much of in the first place. There's only so much knowledge that can be gained from plagiarism.

Mihir said...

Beautiful... absolutely beautiful!

:)

Anonymous said...

Wow, just read Ajai's report on GE turbine fiasco! If there is a policy change every time a new administration comes in Washngton, half of our future ships and all of our Maritime patrol air crafts will be firmly on dry ground every 4 years!

They want to use GE 414 for Tejas MK2?

Band said...

So sad to see Prasun go.. his posts were fun sometimes.. they had lot of fantasy value - like the HarryPotter series or Lord of the rings trilogy!!!

mymaildfw said...

I come visit this blog everyday to read about INS Shivalic article... only to get more dissapointed everyday...

Harpreet said...

Just when our relations with the US start sailing they display their arrogance again.
We should now throw them out of the MRCA competition and ban military purchases from the US unless they change their laws.
There is no reason why we should subject ourselves to such humiliation time and again when there are alternatives available.

Anonymous said...

problem with prasun is that he is a total liar with zero credibility in the industry.

i discovered it myself when at this aero india i went and spoke to drdo ppl using prasun statements from blog. i was shocked and sad to know almost everything he has been feeding people has been BS.

what is locally made he says it is from foreign, what is from foreign he says does not exist but will come in future, what is not there or even planned is already there according to prasun.

IAF, HAL, BEL, drdo ppl were laughing at some of statements when i said this is on internet from prasun sengupta. i was very sad at knowing almost nothing on his blog is true only there is some brochure.

even more funny (not for me) was experience when i went to speak to air force ppl standing in front of lca stall, they called force magazine joke of highest order and prasun sengupta one man even recognised and started laughing, he said this man is writing bukwaas and almost nothing he is writing is true about LCA and israel or MMR. prasun was yelling about first radars being all elta 2052 AESA and mmr as failure but TEAM LCA pilot said it was indian hardware and israel software on MMR and AESA is still being planned for future.

another person said prasun surfs BR forums for information and combines with brochures to fool people. now i am only going to believe what ajaiji writes on blog and next aeroindia i will not mention this joker prasun name otherwise ppl will laugh at me

Anonymous said...

also some industry ppl read BR forums and ajaiji's blog also. they like both.

Sanjay said...

anon@22:10

I echo your comments, I was a big fan of prasun and force initially, and once when my relation came visiting, i rattled off my knowledge of videshi gear. I was of course, using Prasuns articles and statements in FORCE.
My relation was confused, and spent some time going through the mag, and his verdict was, interviews are ok, everything else is BULLSHIT.

That is the saga of Prasun. He fooled me same way he fooled you, but after that I have been very wary of that idiot, and FORCE MAG. I dont believe most media reports now (this blog being an exception because Ajai is one of the rare few who actually posts evidence and names and photos of his visits).

Anonymous said...

the info mentioned above was very enlightening ...though some posts were little confusing .....